Navigating Circus Life and Business with Alisha Rickman

Welcome to the Social Chameleon Show, where it's our goal to help you learn, grow, and transform into the person you wanna become. Today, we have a truly inspiring guest, Alicia Rickman, a passionate entrepreneur with a vision. Alicia's a friend of mine, and she runs a circus center here in Arizona. And it was a pleasure to talk with her. Alicia is not just a storytelling influencer. She's a catalyst for engagement, inspiration, and true unity. Her journey in the world of business and personal development has been her orchestrating seen her orchestrating special events, crafting brand identities, and designing strategic marketing plans both nationally and internationally. Her entrepreneurial spirit has been a guiding force throughout her life.

A noticeable gap here in in the Phoenix area in high level circus training inspired her to not transform from a passionate advocate to a small business owner. With over a decade of experience in the event and circus industry, Alicia cofounded is now the cofounder of what is currently known as the Arizona Circus Center. In September of 2022, they purchased that business. The Arizona Circus Center is more than just a training facility. It's a vibrant hub for creativity and growth. Alicia's dedication and and the staff there, and Brent, the other co owner, to excellence is evident in every aspect of the center. In just a very few short years, they've introduced a range of initiatives, including youth camps, performance tracks, student showcases, open stage. It's kinda like a open mic, but for aerial type things.

And the center's full scale circus productions highlight its dynamic and energetic environment. Alicia's connection to the circus art goes beyond her professional achievements. As a skilled hand to hand artist, she continues to train, perform, and share her experience in tumbling handstands and hand to hand with her her students. Her personal involvement in the community is a testament to her passion, and so she's a powerful source for inspiration for those she coaches. This is a great story. We we were able to get into what it's like owning a circus center, you know, how how she got into it. She had a devastating ACL injury. She she talks through that, what that's like, what she's learned, and it and also kinds of find out.

She's now become a bit of an expert in having a reconstructed ACL and doing tumbling and stuff like that. So it's a very interesting thing. Obstacles she's done, things that they've done to overcome, the self talk, and then all these different things. Without further ado, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Alicia. Alicia, welcome to the Social Chameleon Show.

Thank you for having me.

Oh, it's a pleasure. It's fun. I've I've known you for many years. We've been friends, and I want to get you've had the circus center for a couple years now, and I kinda want to hear about that journey and some of the other things you're going on. So I'm excited to kinda talk about that.

Yeah. I haven't really had a chance to really talk about this journey I've been on, so I'm also excited. Never really had to, like, think deep about running a business.

Yeah. And that's the things I wanna talk about, so that's good to hear. So, I know you've been at this for a while, and I know you've done a lot of other athletic things. And I've I've known, you know, I think, think, probably 7, 8 years I've known you, and I'm and I know you because of the circus center and acro and things like that. What, real quick, is acro for the listeners? A little TLDR on that. And then how did you get into acro and the circus type of arts?

Okay. So acro for me, like, I grew up doing gymnastics until about the age of 12, and then, you know, I kinda hit, middle school, high school where I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And it's kind of funny because I tried out for the cheer team, starting in high school as kind of a joke, because I really didn't think cheerleading was that cool. And then I was like, oh, I'm actually kinda good at this. So I kept going with cheerleading, cheered through college, and did that for 5 years. And leaving a college cheerleading program is kind of hard to do. It's it's really fun. You build a lot of camaraderie.

It's a it's a great team experience. So when I left college, I was trying to find something similar to keep my athletics going. Mhmm. And I was rock climbing, and at my rock climbing gym, I saw some people doing some, like, beginner acro yoga classes. And I was like, what is this? This is kinda like cheerleading. So I took a class and, kinda after that, the rest is history. I just kept going because it was so much, like, partner stunting, and, there's little communities of ACRO everywhere you go. So it was easy to find it in any state I was in.

Yeah. That's the thing. I think it seems like you kinda started at the beginning of this in a way. ACRO and I know when I met you and when I kinda first started, it was sorta new. But, really, now, it's really gained a lot of traction. It's quite popular. I feel like you kinda were in the right place at the right time in a way to get into that. And I know what you're saying.

It does have a lot of similarities. I know you talked about in class and stuff and coaching and stuff, where it does have a lot of similarities to cheer. So I can see how that was an easy transition for you to go into that.

Yeah. Absolutely. And it was kind of, like, a thing you didn't hear about, and now I feel like it is a little bit more mainstream. You can kind of see circus in general expanding to colleges and school programs and, like, acro is now, like, oh, it's a readily known thing. I think social media really helps with that and making, like, these hidden little gems more popular and attain like, to anyone.

Mhmm. And, also, thing to funny, I got into ACRO. I don't know if you're familiar with Tim Ferris.

Yeah.

So I must be 7, 8, 9 years ago or whatever. He had found it somewhere. I don't remember where. Like, he could not stop talking about it, like, on his podcast and stuff. And I was like, what is this guy talking about? I've never heard of this. And he was on Jimmy Fallon, and he was doing it. It was kinda that was the early kind of definitely the early days. So that's why I found Acrobat.

I was like, I googled it. It was, like, hard to find anything, and and it was, like, weird. And that was, like, the only place that I could find that did it. So, yeah, like you're saying that, yeah, definitely social media, especially a lot of these things are pretty and stuff like that. That. But it was so hard to find now. It's, like, ubiquitous. It's it's so many places.

And then with that, I've seen the community grow and grown out, which is good for your business, is what we can kinda see with that.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Did you go to college on a skier a cheer scholarship?

I did not. There's so when I was entering into, like, collegiate cheerleading, call it was actually a pretty big thing that cheerleading scholarships weren't plentiful simply because, you know, a lot of people still weren't recognizing cheerleading as a sport. So then major schools weren't offering. So it's it's a lot more, like, common for people to get scholarships. But during my time going to college, it was just really not a thing. You had to be, like, best of the best and going to, like, these small rural schools in Kentucky to get, any kind of scholarship for cheer.

Interesting. Because it seems like, from my outside perspective, it seems it seems quite popular. There's Netflix shows, and there's other shows and stuff like that that that showcase these things. And it seems like there's big competitions and and big things that have seemed very popular. But that's interesting that it's not that popular as it may it may seem from the outside.

Yeah. Exactly. And there's, like, different realms of cheer. So there's, like, NCAA, UCLA, and then all star cheer. And, what you mostly see on those shows is, like, All Star Chair, which is kind of like its own entity. It's usually not associated with any kind of, education university. It's kind of like your club gymnastics, but cheerleading.

Interesting. I'd like to transition to something that happened to you, few years back. You tore your ACL in an accident. What was what was that like being a lifelong kinda athlete from what I understand from you to going to basically sedentary, like, literally overnight or in an instant? What was that like? Was is there a self talk? Were you in a dark place? Can we talk through that?

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I having an a major injury like that, especially since through all of my athletics, I never had, like, a big in out. So when it first happened, it was kinda like a blur because I just really didn't grasp the extent. And and you kinda just, like, went through the checklist. I was like, okay. Something's wrong with my knee.

And then, you know, I had a friend that was in PT that was like, you need a MRI. I'm pretty sure you've torn your ACL. And I was like, oh, that seems serious. Got them around, and they're like, oh, it's like, you don't even have an ACL anymore. It's it's just not there. Yeah. So then it was like, you're gonna need surgery, and I was like, oh, that's wild. I've never had surgery before.

So it was all just a new experience, and I felt, honestly, looking back, like, I was just a little bit naive about the whole experience of what I was like. I have the surgery. I do the rehab, and then I just I, like, go back, and everything's normal. And it's it's really not. Like, injuries, like an HCL repair is now what I realized is gonna be, like, a lifelong battle. It's, you know, been almost 3 years or a little over 3 years, and, you know, I still do my prehab. I still have knee pain.

Like, they're, like, arthritis is definitely down the road, and then

there's gonna be, you know, And it it was really interesting to go to the surgeon and being 30, getting an ACL repair, and he's like, well, do you even want this surgery? And I was like, well, can I keep doing ac yeah? Like, what do you mean? Can I keep doing acrobatics without it? And he was like, well, no. Like but you'll be able to walk. You'll be able

to do day to day activities. And I was like, well, of course,

course, I want the surgery.

And he

was like, okay. But, like, are you gonna keep doing athletics? Because it's not an easy recovery. And I was just, like, so blown away that that was an option to just, like, have no c ACL and just keep going about my life, but just never be able to, like, jump or, like, my knee was gonna be so unstable. So after the surgery and all of that went through, like, I think that day 1 coming home, and I was just in so much pain. The surgery was excruciating. And having to wear a brace for 6 weeks, my, like, complete like, it all kinda started to hit me that it was a it was a big deal, and it was gonna be hard. Mhmm. And so, yeah, the I feel like you're just looking 1 day at a time trying to get through the injury.

So I can see now that I'm struggling. My identity was an athlete, and I no longer had that. So I was kind of like, who who am I? Like, what if I can never do athletics again? Like, what's my identity now?

How did you work through that? I mean, because, like you're saying, suddenly, I'm not an athlete anymore. Suddenly, I might not ever do this, especially what the surgeons are saying, which feels counterintuitive because, I mean, from the outside, we see NFL players, college players, high school college players, all kind of athletes tear the ACL. 9 months, they're back in the field. So it feels counterintuitive from what the surgeon was saying versus what what we see from the outside. How did you deal with, like, losing your identity in a way, at least for a little while?

Honestly, like, I I know a lot of nonathletes who get, like, maybe they're just highly athletic people but not driven by a sport. They a lot of them are like, I didn't do any of the rehab. And so, like, for me, having those scheduled appointments, like, it did start to, like, grow into, like, a workout for me. So I was I had great PT. I would go in. He understood what I wanted, and, like, gave me workouts based on that. So, like, that little bit of PT I had 3 times a week was lit well, it, like, kicked my butt while I was so sore every time. So it, like, kept a little bit of that workout aspect into it and, like, really gave me hope that I had a good PP to get me back.

I don't know. And I just like, I've always been really stubborn and determined. So even though yeah. I know. Even though, you know, my surgeon was like, yeah, I you you might not ever get a a hyperextension in your knee again, which is so important for what I do. I was just like, I don't know. I let's see. Like, I'll just prove you wrong.

I just work really hard, and, you know, I have gained a lot more mobility than I thought I would. So it's just kind of, like, that stubbornness pays off in the aspect that I wasn't going to give up. And I also really hated the idea of quitting acrobatics because of an injury. And, like, when when I do decide to not do it anymore, I want it to be a decision I make, not something I'm forced to do.

Right. Do you think that came from your earlier life, your childhood and teens in high school, the athletic, ness that you have that does that that drive come from that, or were you like that maybe always?

That's a good question. I feel like so both my parents were entrepreneurs. My they owned a car lot. And that was my dad's dream. He opened it up, met my mom, and then my mom helped run the business. So my household was just always, like, you know, they got up early. They went to work, and I was like, wow. That's crazy.

Nobody why don't you sleep in? Nobody's telling you that you have to go. And they were just very disciplined, in running a business. So I I did have that aspect actually through high school. I was just, like, not into school. I, like, really wasn't motivated, and it didn't really change until I got to college. And I kind of found something, in college courses. Like, it was event planning when I decided to switch to that route. And I started those classes.

Like, I started to get really motivated, and I just had some inspiring college professors that, like, really instilled in me, like, you know, don't quit, that, like, all these really good qualities to be successful as an adult, not just as a business professional of any kind.

So with the entrepreneurial family, why go to college? That seems was that the status quo you felt like or something else?

Yeah. You know, my parents didn't really, like, even push college. They really I was probably the most, like, free spirited kid. They were like, whatever you want, but, like, this would be good. They did support me, but I know, like, not a lot of of my family did go to college, and especially my dad. Like, he worked I think he worked in the mines at a very young age, dropped out of school. So it felt important to him for me to get an education. And so when he passed away when I was 18, I was like, I have to go to college.

He's had saved money for me to go to college. So that I think my dad was a little bit the motivation to just go and get an education and then decide what I wanted to do.

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's that's, that's sad at such a young age. It's it's nice. I I'm sure he he would appreciate you kind of living his dream in a way that was awesome.

Yeah.

It's interesting because my family also, I grew up entrepreneurs. My family owned businesses. Everybody in the family worked in the business. But my parents were similar like that, where, you know, my dad, he he was college educated. My mom was not. I don't know if any I I think his siblings and stuff were I was college educated as well, but I don't think my grandparents were. But it was very even though I had no interest in school, I I wonder if this is, like, a entrepreneur kind of brain kind of thing. That seems to be, like, a similar story where those types of people, us type of people like that, we don't like school for some reason.

I I mean, it's a structure. Maybe it's the authority figure or something like that, but it seems like there's something there to that. But my dad did harp on on school as well even though he was an entrepreneur. He still does this day. That's interesting. I wonder if there's something there with with the way our brains are wired or the way we're raised or something.

Yeah. I can see. I feel like a lot of and I guess this is still a quality I have is looking back. I feel like it's a little bit, like, being told exactly how to do something was like it lacks any, like, creative outlet. So the classes I did really enjoy were typically more like creative outlets, like pro like, problem solving classes, my art classes, things that weren't, like, here's a math equation, and there's 1 way to do it. And this is exactly how you're gonna do it. It. So, like, I know I struggled with things like that because it was just like, I'm gonna tell you how to do it, and then you need to learn how to do it exactly how I'm saying.

And I was just like, it's so boring. Like, why do I need to know this?

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I know. I I with my children, I've never told them to go to college. I could care less if they do or don't. I'd like that to leave it up to them. Especially nowadays, I feel like it's so easy to get an education, whatever that means to you.

You know? As you see behind me, I thousands of books. These are just things I like.

This is

not even all I've read. You know? I mean, there's YouTube. There's Udemy. There's so many things. There's just getting out and and and getting that practical experience. I get in trouble from a lot of teachers and other parents. They're like, oh, you you gotta tell them

to go

over to college. First of all, my son's 13. That's the last thing he should be thinking about right now. He should be thinking about being a child. You know? Yeah. Exactly. Worked on a lot. And and I've heard recently, there's some companies and tech companies stuff.

They're, like, foregoing college requirements. Like, listen. If you can demonstrate us competency and a lot of times, these guys are actually more company because, like you're saying, right, they didn't have a formula. Like, I have to stick to this formula. Show your work. Like, they've had to figure out how to solve problems, how to do things. Maybe they do it quicker, faster, better, or whatever, those different things. So I think that's something that's I feel like it's gonna go to the wayside unless you really a specialty career you need to get a degree for.

Yeah. I can I can definitely see that? And it's funny because when I left college, I used to blog a lot. And in 1 of my first jobs, like I wrote this blog post that a lot people liked, and it was like all the things college didn't actually teach me. And it was just like how to be an adult. Like, I was like, how do you do taxes? Yeah. Like, I don't how do I that's really important to know. Or like, how do I budget so that I can survive on this low paying job? And, lucky for me, I actually feel like my education has taught me a lot, but it was very real world experience. Like, they're like, you're going to school for event management and commercial recreation.

So you're gonna plan an event from start to finish for the school. And, like, I mean, nothing I feel like teaches you better than the hands on experience. So I feel like my college courses were really good, and I still use everything they taught me. But I know some people are like, I don't even use my degree. And I'm like, oh, that's a bummer because a lot of money.

Yeah. I know. I I hate I hate that. I have to have that discussion with my son too. Like, in in high school, I took up to it was trigonometry, like, precalculus. And then I was like, when am I ever gonna use this? And then I you know, and I went to college for a little bit, and I was like, this is stupid. And then I finally 1 day, I got a job. I think I was in my late twenties.

And I was like, oh my god. I need to use math again. And I had to, like, relearn, like, how what's how do you get the area of this, and how does this stuff and I had to relearn those things. My son, he's kinda like, you know, how do you not know how to do this stuff, dad? I'm like, hey. I I was like, first of all, I've never used this stuff in a long time. So I I can understand the frustration with that, especially as you start to get older. Like, I really didn't need this or, you know, in most cases or a lot of cases, I'd say.

Oh, yeah. And even, like, when I coached gymnastics, the kids would be like, can you help me with my math homework?

And I was like,

oh my gosh. Your 7 year old, like, a 7 year old's math homework? But I was like, this is so complex. Like, I I'm so sorry. I can't help you.

That's funny. So with your your life now, you you own and operate and train at, the Arizona Circus Center. So Yeah. How how do you manage I hate the word balance, but maybe for clarity, we can go with that. You know, you you gotta work on your business, You gotta work in your business, and you're also a client in your business. How do you manage those roles? How do you switch hats? How do you switch between them? What have you found out? What have you learned, tried?

So much. I feel like the first 2 years we're now in, like, going into year 3. The 1st 2 years, I would say there was no balance. Like, it was it was skittery. It was new. So it was, like, a 100% just, like, work on the business from when we wake up to when we go to bed. We did everything ourselves. I and I was injured.

So, like, training training kinda took a back burner. I did my PT. In in some way, like, the delay of my PT was because of owning the business, and then we had a show, and it was, like, conflicting. And so I was like, oh, I'm gonna put it off 2 weeks. And then I told my surgeon that I just started PT a month later, and he was like, that was the biggest mistake of your life. Why would you start PT late? And I was like, I didn't know. But yeah. So it was like, we just dove all in, and there was no balance.

And so by the end of last year, like, I I was burnt. I was honestly at a point where I, like, sat down with Brent, my business partner, and I was like, I'm not sure I wanna own a business. Like, I thought I wanted this my entire life, but there was so much I just didn't anticipate having to do or having to learn or having to manage. And I just felt like my quality of life was not where I wanted it to be, and I was very unhappy. And so it kind of forced me. Like, I took the holidays off. I took a solid, like, month off and just stepped away. And then I had to, like, refocus and be like, what do I like to do for my business? Like, how can I better manage my boundaries? And then I slowly started adding things back in from January till now, and I feel like I'm in a much better place.

Like, I definitely have found some tips of just, like, planning is so important and then trying to set those boundaries and stick to that schedule. We hired help, which we needed, but it's always hard to decide, like, budgetary.

Yeah.

Is help gonna pay for itself or that it's always scary to ask people help, but that's been really beneficial. And I feel like the biggest part of running a business has been learning how to, like, balance the work. I think a lot of people just don't even understand what goes into not only running your own business, but running a business with that's a service industry. And you have a lot of different people coming through the door, whether they're your coaches, your clientele, parents. It's a it's a lot to manage socially, and that can be exhausting.

What what did you try? What worked? What didn't work? You know, maybe what's the best advice that worked for you or didn't work for you to figure all that out and finally get to something that's kinda where you're at now. I'm kinda glad I waited to ask you to get on here. Sounds like you're in a better place.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. So, like, if I if I feel like the best advice I was ever given, I read a lot of Brene Brown books, which

She's great.

I love Brene Brown. She's very inspiring to me. And, like, her her thought process of being like, you know, if you're not in their arena, like if they're not in there with you, you don't need to listen to them. And that was, that's the hard part of being a business owner is everyone thinks they know what's best. And then you're like, oh, am I messing up? Are they right? Like and so when I switched my mindset to, like unless you've ran a business or you've produced a show, like, I can hear your input and I can process it, but I can I can choose to leave it, was really helpful just because there that you just don't have the experience? You don't have the full story to give me advice on how to do things. And, another really good friend of ours, he was also they run a business, and they travel through Rentfair. And he was, like, seeing how they get really busy. And instead of saying no to things, he just puts the price at a point that it's worth doing.

And that was actually a really, like, eye opening moment where he was like, yeah. I just asked for how much it's worth to you to do. And if they pass on it because it's too much money or the stipulations are too big, then you know it's not for you. And then if not, then they do it, and you're like, wow. Okay. Like, this is not worth my time. And I was like, that that was really game changing advice for us as well.

You know,

that's in that's, that's really great you learned that. That is a very valuable lesson, and it's hard from my perspective on what I do. III, you know, help entrepreneurs and stuff, and I help small business. They are so reluctant to change price. They are so reluctant to raise price. And, like you're saying, a lot of problems go away. You know? Not to also mention a lot of stress is relieved as well. Suddenly, your profit margins are bigger.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so hard to convince people to change to change price, up their prices, some of that. As I I'm glad you learned that lesson.

Yeah. I think it I mean, like, our prices in the general scheme of the market, like were really low for a long time, but we were really nervous to raise the prices. So when we, you know, realized that our our pricing structure was significantly lower than the general, like, national market, We were like, okay. We need to raise prices. But especially coming from Acrobody, which prices were, like, crazy affordable. We just didn't wanna lose, like, a whole demographic because going from $12 to $20 was a lot, and then we're going 20 to 25. But we were also, like, way under market value, which means, like, we couldn't pay our instructors as well as we wanted to. So we made those adjustments this year, and it was you know, you were like, okay.

How's that gonna affect our business? But I think it was cool to have clients actually reach out and be like, oh, good. I'm glad you're doing this. This is necessary and, like, support our decision versus getting that backlash of, like, what are you doing? I can't afford your service anymore.

And from my perspective, looking looking in, that the place is busier than I've ever seen it. So it it doesn't it seems fine.

Yeah.

Yeah. Let's I feel like that's not always the case when people change pricing. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I think I think being a little bit on the back end, like, not leading that price change, but kind of following what everyone else is doing is just a little bit safer in the mindset. Because, I mean, the nice thing is is our most reoccurring customers are traveling.

They are going to other places. They are learning from other coaches, and so they kind of understand that, oh, wow. This is actually pretty much what I would pay anywhere else.

Yeah. And like you're saying, I think with the economic situation situations we're in at 2024, everything's raising, and I think people, like you're saying, are comfortable. Like, okay. These are these are coming. It's eventually gonna happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

So, correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like you could have a hard time asking for help.

Oh, absolutely. How did you know that?

just been a little while. So how have you started to overcome that? Like, you're saying, you you had to learn to ask for help. You had to to hire people. How did you how are you working on that? How did you start to kinda, you know, dip your toe in the water?

Honestly, I'm I'm still working on that. I actually recently was just talking to somebody and was just saying, like sometimes what I don't think people realize when you're the a small business owner is, like, how much you've invested in this project or this little baby of yours. So that lack of trust of of wanting to ask for help and worried that it might not, like, get done to the quality that you're wanting to present, is it's just, like, your whole life. You're like, you know, like, in 2 months, I could wake up and my business could fail. That's just Mhmm. The reality of being a business owner. Like, we could, like, not follow certain safety and risk management and then lose our insurance. And there's very few insurance companies that support what we do.

So, like, there's a lot of carefulness around owning a business. And so I I'm still working on it because in order to grow, you have to, like, find find your your pride that supports your core values, your mission. And I feel like the best way that I've been able to let go of that control is to, like, be able to relax myself is the best way I can say it. Like, let let things go a little bit and, like, instead of being trying to have control of everything, just like, if things aren't going to plan, just kinda be like, okay. Like, I'm gonna hear this out, and then I'm gonna move forward with it instead of, like, hounding the situation and be like, oh, this didn't go right. This isn't how I wanted things to go. So, like, being able to work on myself and, like, let things be the way they are, not feel like I need that control, that's kinda just, like, let me put some projects into other people's hands and be a little bit more open to, like, maybe that's not how I would have done it, but was that the same outcome? Did we achieve the same goal?

Right. Are you familiar with Jocko Willink?

I am not.

He wrote a book, Extreme Ownership and some other things he's a former, retired Navy SEAL commander. He talks about what you're saying here is, giving people ownership, being able to detach and saying, you know, 80%, is that was that is that good enough? Like, you know, like you're saying, are we getting to the same outcome? And that's how he was able to learn, something he learned, you know, commanding the Navy SEALs and all these things. He he learned those concepts, and he's kinda expressing them now, through through leadership and stuff like that. Or so it's interesting that you've learned that as well.

Yeah. Kind of, honestly, through Brent who since we started this business, because, like, it's it's gonna be okay, Alicia. Like Yeah. It didn't go how you wanted, but it's still okay. So on it, like, trying to be a little bit more like Brent has been really helpful, which is he's just so like, I don't care. If they hate me, they hate me. If you know what? That's their choice, but we just gotta move forward. I'm like, how do you just relax so much and just, like, let things be.

That's great that, he's that yin to your yang, because that could be if he was similar to you, that could be as co owners and stuff like that. That could be very detrimental to the business.

Yeah. I really like, I think our success is really just our partnership is very opposite. So, you know, he's the people person. He's the, like, I'm gonna go talk to people. And that's what he enjoys. And I'm like the behind the scenes, the details, like, I think about every little thing that could happen. So, like, we really do work well together. And if there were 2 people who are just like, oh my gosh.

This didn't go according to plan. Like, the business would have failed so long ago.

Yeah. Where did you get that from? Do you think or is that something you just may be born with or something?

Honestly, I think it was just from my work experience. Like, being event planner is thinking of all the details and then, like, implementing a plan. And then the goal is to put that plan into action exactly as you had. Like, maybe they're small things, but a lot of times you, like, plan the event, you build the event, and it goes exactly how you plan it. So I think it's just from my schooling, from my work experience prior to circus. And, like, you know, you're like, when fires arise, we take care of it, but you usually have a plan for it already. Like, that plan for the worst. Sorry.

I got this. Don't worry.

Yeah. The contingency planning. See, I'm not good at that. I need people around me that contingency plan. Because I'm like, I'll figure it out. I I don't know. When it comes there, it'll get done.

Yeah. And that's how Brent is, and that's where I am. And I'm like, I've already thought of this. This is my solution.

Yeah. I, 1 of my, business colleagues, he's always talking to me. You need more plans. You need more contingents. I was like, bro. Right? That's you, buddy. I you figure that out. I don't I don't have nothing to do with that.

Yeah. And even when you plan for everything, there's always something you're like course. Okay. Like, now I gotta learn something because this is outside of what I thought I would need to deal with.

Yeah. And once you get that experience, you're gonna start to recognize that. And you know how to, like like, learn to ask for help. You can start saying, okay. Listen. These situations come up, and then you get experience from all that. So I yeah. That's I think that's fine.

Yeah. Absolutely.

So you started doing acro, and then you you and Brent started doing doing your guys' thing. You got edge acrobatics. You guys are doing your shows and stuff. You were teaching at Acrobody. That went away. Then you guys moved over to Vertcofix. You you managed that, you know, whatever the capacity was there. Mhmm.

And then, you know, COVID and stuff came around. That place, from my understanding, wasn't doing quite well, and it came up for sale. Why? Why did you guys buy that? That you could've anybody could've just looked at that and said, you guys are stupid. You should just wait for a new owner, or you guys should go somewhere else or maybe go from scratch. Why why buy the place?

So long I think about right even before Acrobat opened, actually, we were doing a lot of training at the San Diego Circus Center with under Jean Luc. And, you know, we would we would, like, spend 3 months, take our whole summer, spend our whole savings to go somewhere else to train. And we were like, man, we just, like, really need a facility in Phoenix. It's lacking the market. I think other people would like it. And then, you know, Acrobody opened. And it was it was a great acro space, but it lacked the area. It lacked a full circus training, but it was a step in the right direction.

And so we, like, continue to train, and we we actually talked to Jean Luc a lot about opening our own space or, like, you know, we're touring between, like, do we pursue professional performing, try to get contracts, or do we coach? Like, we love doing both, and we are trying to decide what our future was gonna look like. And the thing I love about the San Diego Circus Center is there's this just environment that's so awesome to be in. It's very supportive. It's very welcoming. Like, we would be gone for 8 months, come back, and the same people would just be like, oh my god. You're back in town. How long? Like, they greeted you, and I just love that community aspect he's built. And it's it's a great facility, and we were just like, I I want something like that closer to us.

And so when Acrobody closed, we were like, okay, like that's a good opportunity to take what was built, bring it to vertical fix. And they had aerial already, so we would could add the ground stuff. And I was like, okay. That's even another step in the right direction. And just kinda get experience under AAA bigger studio operating. And Thomas was, nice enough to bring us on to help him manage. I mean, he was running that whole business and then his landscaping business, which today still blows my mind how he did it. And we learned a lot just about, like, his operations, what he was doing.

And, you know, we. I'm sure when this first came up, he probably wasn't, like, super thrilled, but there was a point where I was like, you know, Thomas, like, have you ever thought about, like, not owning a business anymore? Like, it seems to cause you a lot of stress. It's something me and Brent wanna do. And I told him, like, 1 day, I wanna build my own dream, and I wanna stop building this dream for other people. And, yeah, he's he was like, no.

I don't

wanna sell to you. Absolutely not. And we're like, okay. We'll just we'll keep we'll keep going. And then COVID happened, and the business was struggling, and we're

working together. And, you know, once again, we're like,

you know, we could we could together. And, you know, once again, we're like, you know, we could we

could buy and take on this risk. And, again,

it was like, no. So we're like, okay. We'll just keep waiting. And then it was actually, like, So we're like, okay. We'll just keep waiting. And then it was actually like we got through COVID, and we're still like like, okay. The business is gonna be okay. And I think it was just so much work at that point that we sat down for a meeting with Thomas, and he was like, I've been thinking about what you said about, like, you're gonna build your own gym 1 day, and, like, you don't wanna keep building this dream for me.

So, like, is buying the studio still on the table? And Brent's always like, yeah. Absolutely. And I'm, you know, the realistic 1, like, oh my god. Okay. This is this could be a thing. Like, I don't even how do we afford this? Like, I have no idea what I'm doing. How do you acquire a business? And luckily, Brent's dad was super supportive. He also an entrepreneur his whole life and was willing to front us money to, like, achieve this dream.

So his dad helped us through like, helped us look through all the papers, what we're getting, the contracts and acquisitions. And, you know, even talking with our mentor, Jean Luc, he was like, I don't think you wanna buy another business. Like, start from scratch. You're gonna have a lot to deal with. And we're like, oh, it's just so scary to start from scratch when this is already built. We're already in it. We've already managed it. So it just, you know, it's kind of like the stars aligned and it felt right.

I went from, like, I don't understand how we're ever gonna achieve this dream to, like, oh my god. The opportunity is right here in front of me. So with everything aligning up, we're like, okay. Let's let's do it. It's scary, but let's see what we can do. And we had we felt like we had helped Thomas turn around so much already that we could just, like, keep going off that momentum.

And was there a point where you you guys started talking yourself out of it? Like, this is a lot of money, you know, maybe not. You know, typically, acquiring a business is the better thing because the business is established. It's gone through that initial period of failure, so that's good. It did that happen at all?

I can no. I can't speak for Brent because I feel like he's always just trying to be the calm 1, but I felt like every single day up until that point where I said I was burnt burnt out, I was just like, what are we doing? Is this the right thing? Because it, it wasn't a brand that we wanted. Like it was labeled as aerial arts. So it wasn't a circus center. Like, I kinda love the logo or branding, just because it didn't speak to me and what my vision was. So and then you also, like you're hiring people who are used to things a certain way.

Right.

And, you know, there's already a culture built. So when you're trying to shift things to how you envision it to be, there's there's a lot of resistance or fear with the change. And so there was a lot of times where I was like, I think we should have just started from scratch. And, you know, change takes time. So after that 2 year mark, I was like, okay. Like, I think things are shifting in a a way that we like, and I'm glad we stuck with it. But, you know, for me, every single day, I was like, I don't know if we're doing the right thing. I had so many doubts that we would be able to achieve what we've achieved today.

Well, how did you do that? Was there some self talk? Was there I I don't know. Something that you did? How did you guys get how did you mentally get through that?

You honestly, like I said, I I read those Brene Brown books, and I feel like when I was definitely at the quitting points, those gave me some, like, personal things to work on. And honestly, I like, Thomas had a lot of the same struggles that I felt, like, because our personalities were very similar and we connected on that. So having the owner still around or the past owners still around to, like, confide in, to, like, talk through it was comfort on both parts because we could you know, he'd be like, you know, I went through this, and what was your advice to me? Like, this, this, and this. And I'm like, oh, we're we're spilling our own advice back at us. You're right. And then, you know, for him to be like, okay. Like, my I'm feeling very validated in all the things I complained about because you guys are complaining about it too. And so I feel like him still being there to kind of, like, be a shoulder to lean on was really helpful.

And if he would have just been like, here's the business and dipped out, I think it would have been been a lot harder to get through.

That's good to know. So I guess for people out there, it can be an advantage to have those golden handcuffs a little bit for the new owner.

Yeah.

Something III recognize and I really just love about, my experience in the acro circus community, 99.9% of time, that is some of the best people I have ever, ever met. How have you been able to continue cultivating that and and and and fostering that as well as switching the culture, sounds like, from your staff to to however you wanted to mold that?

Yeah. I feel like it's a little bit of leading the best we can by example, kinda just, like, keeps bringing people in. I it really helps that. Like, circus is, like, either a pastime or, like, a safe haven, or it's something that people are going to do to find joy, to decompress from work, to find an outlet. So, you know, it it's just making sure it continues to be that kind of safe space and, like, realizing that that 1 class that person goes to might be the highlight of their week. And so, you know, we're just trying to create that inclusive environment where anyone can come in. They can be any level, but practice in a safe way, so having a lot of different level offerings. And then for us, it's, like, really trying to keep our staff, like, trained, motivated, happy.

You know? Like, if our coaches are doom and gloom, our students are gonna be doom and gloom. So we're just trying to, like, you know, have more peppy and open the environment is, the more people feel like they can come in and just be themselves.

What are some tips, tricks, strategies, tactics that you use to keep that the coaches inspired, motivated, keep them happy, even firing people, you know, if that's something you need to

do? Yeah. When so it's really funny you asked that because the 1 thing I didn't realize when I became a business owner where I managed other people is how much being a business owner is just talking to your staff. Like, keeping them happy. Oh, not like, I hate saying, like, being a therapist, but, like, just checking in, being, like you know, like, someone came in and they're like, oh my gosh. My my dog died. And you're like, I it's important that I take whatever time out of my busy schedule to have that conversation just to make them feel heard, to connect with them. And that's just not something I was prepared for at all. And I didn't realize how much that was going to be important to succeeding and being a business owner is that connection with your staff.

And I was just like, this is exhausting. Like, I don't wanna talk to any more people today, but then you have to. And so, it's just, you know, Brent's great at it again. So I have a partner that really helps split that work up. But for me, it was just kind of realizing that that was that was a part of the job. It wasn't just, like, administrative work and program and curriculum building. It was not gonna be behind a computer. I had to touch base and talk to people and feel accessible.

So if my staff does have complaints, recommendations, they felt like they could talk to me. And, you know, at first, you're so stressed out that I don't think I was very available or, you know, they're like, oh my god. I don't wanna ask Alicia. She's scary today. I was. So learning to adjust to that expectation and just giving myself grace because it was a new skill, and I'm still working on it. And, you know, I still have my days where I'm like, oh my gosh. I can't talk to anyone today, and I'm a little grumpy.

And then I just try to recognize that's human. And then, you know, tomorrow, I'm gonna try a little bit better.

What about hiring and firing? What have you learned in in that realm?

Luckily, like, we haven't really had any firing. I feel like a lot of times, if you really push your values, your mission statement, your expectations, you have clear communication. I think people kind of like, choose to stay or choose to go. And I, like, I did have a college professor that was like, you know, if you don't like where you're sitting, then get off the bus because somebody else wants that seat. Somebody else is dying to be there. And that's always really stuck with me. And so I feel like hiring is always tough. It's, there's not like a bazillion circus instructors ready for this niche job.

It's usually like a secondary job, so you're really managing other schedules. It's hard it's very hard to be a full time coach. Not many people can do that just from the social aspect alone. You're always on. You're always a 100% energy. So we're still kind of working through, like, an onboarding process, a training, filling out how to hire the right people. And then I would say firing, it's like, there's only been 1 instance where I was like, okay, this person needs to go. Like, they do they don't support us.

They don't support our vision. They don't like how we run the business. And, you know, they kinda ended up leaving themselves, but I think k. We should have made a statement

Mhmm.

By letting that person go. So I think it would have set an example of, hey. Like, if if you're not on board, like, we will ask you to leave. Like, there is a little bit of seriousness where I felt like maybe actually firing someone would have been more beneficial than just being like, oh, yay. They're leaving on their own. Perfect. I don't have to deal with that. So we avoided those tough conversations, but I think it would have been beneficial for the staff to see that in the end.

Do did you or did you guys purposely avoid those conversations, or did it just so happens maybe they felt like, I'm probably gonna get fired. I gotta go.

I feel like it just again, like, it all kind of worked out. I don't I think, like, they knew we were unhappy, and they were unhappy. And so it just kinda, like, broke apart. But, Yeah. Like, I I would say, like, we probably avoided the tough conversations, and that's that's the hard, that's the hard part is like giving feedback to people is like, so hard. We're always like, you go to that. No, you go do it. I have to go tell this person that's happened.

Just because, you know, we we do coaches tend to like have a lot of like perfectionist qualities, especially if you're training in athletics. So hearing like, Hey, I have some feedback for you. It's just always like a tough conversation even though you're like, it's okay. Like, we're gonna we're gonna receive it, and then we're gonna work on, like, a plan to make it better. And it's not just a complaint. It's just a way to continue to improve. But, like, nobody nobody ever hears it like that. It's always like, oh my god.

I messed up.

How are you getting better at that, working on that? Are you something you're practicing?

Oh, yeah. For me, I feel like finding we ask everyone, like, how they wanna receive their feedback so that they know that feedback does happen. And then we I feel like a good time, unless it's, like, a super urgent matter, which we don't have a lot of those, we try to schedule, like, check ins. So we'll sit down, we'll have an hour of conversation of just like, okay. Like, how are things going? Where do you feel like your resources are lacking? Here's how I think you could improve. Here's how you think we can improve. And we just try to have open conversations and check ins with our staff.

I like that. How do you avoid, like, pandering?

Do you what do you mean exactly by that?

Like, you're saying that, you know, how do you want me to coach you? You know, how does that how do you avoid that from being like, well, oh, they don't want me to be mean. They only want me to say nice words. They don't wanna hear when I'm messed up.

Okay.

I only have to talk nice. I have to be so careful around this person. Especially, like, you know, it's I think it's more common with children nowadays, especially, you know, the the the they're always I'm a star at everything. I got 700 trophies because I showed up to every class this week. You know? So how how do you avoid that?

That's a good question. You know, I feel like it's just kind of a part of the process, and I feel like, again, as we are able to hire our own staff and bring them in, the expectation and the clear communication from the beginning is important to that. Mhmm. Again, like, we still have you know, we've had staff that worked under this business for almost a decade, and only 3 of those years have been under us. So, like, we're still combating some of, like, well, when this person owned the business or when this person owned the business and just that change in expectation. So I think, like, as our business grows and we kind of set a new tone and we just, like, come in from the start with those clear like, I love Brene Brown's, like, clear is kind. Even if that's that tough conversations, like, don't use few words and just make sure the points are crossed. Don't, like, dilute it with things.

The those things help, and it's just a process to keep navigating. Like, it's always gonna be there. You can't always fully resolve everything, so you're just gonna keep navigating it.

Yeah. That that's that's a tough conversation. That's definitely a skill. So every business has brick walls, obstacles, shit. What's the shit you didn't expect or see coming when you guys bought, you know, Vertical Fix, which is now Arizona Circus Center?

So much. So much. I feel like at first, it was the personal conflicts of students. Like, how many times, like, a student might bring you into your office and be like, I need to talk to you about this other student. And then I and especially, like you know, we we don't we have, like, some young adults, but we mostly have older adults at 27, 30 range. And so I just didn't like, being able to handle someone coming in and having some, like, big accusations about other people coming in the studio. And then, you know, you're like, okay. So, like, what class or where in the studio this happened? They're like, oh, this was at a party.

I'm like, wait. Why are you telling me this? Like, I don't own the party. Like Yeah. So that was, like, a huge navigation thing. And I think that came with, like, we just, like, kind of started cleaning up the culture a little bit that, you know, like, we've set tones that were like I joke and I'm like, if I had to really dive deep into everyone's drama, I would go insane. So, like, unless there's some big, like, police report or huge incident, that's definitely a legal issue. Like, everyone is welcome into our space unless something serious happens that we will look into it. But personal problems out the door.

The second big obstacle I feel like is space. Like, we did grow really fast, right after COVID, and, you know, we don't have the ceiling height that we want. We don't have the, like, square not square footage, but, like, the ability to have multi multiple pulley points so we can change our apparatuses. So I wanna trampoline, but our ceilings are definitely too low for that. So finding an air conditioned space in the Phoenix area that meets, like, a certain ceiling height, clear height requirement, but isn't, like, 30, 000 plus square feet has I mean, we spent now 3 years looking, and we are still struggling to find that spot.

Yeah. I know. We've talked about that, after that. I'm very curious on how you guys are progressing on that. What I mean, that's a big thing. You're like you're saying, you're still dealing with to this day. We're here in in June of 24. What have you learned from that? How how have you been able to navigate that? Stay stay patient.

Stay calm. Not be frustrated. Not saying you are or not, but you know? Yeah.

Luckily, like, 1 of our coaches did put us into the hands of a really great realtor who's been very patient and stuck with us. We have worked, reached out to just people who can do 1 search. They offer us the space. I was like, no. That's not gonna work at all. And they're like, okay. And then they, like, kinda ghost us, and we're like, okay. He he's worked with us through, like, 2 years now.

He's he's really given us some great spaces. We've even applied to spaces, but it's just the market is so easy to pick and choose who your tenants are that if you're gonna have this really niche, weird people coming in, rigging things to your ceiling versus someone who's like, I just wanna store some boxes. You're gonna pick the easier tenant. Mhmm. So our usage tends to, like, turn people away a little bit. Plus we take up, like, 30 plus parking spots every evening, so parking is always a big factor. So I feel like we're at a stage where we're having to consider scarier routes, which is like building. Mhmm.

And, you know, our realtor is like, it's it's a good market. You could build your dream space. You don't need that square footage yet and then sublease or you put or lease out, and then you pretty much have 2 businesses. Mhmm. When you wanna grow into it, you don't sublease it out anymore. And then, you know, like, finding a bigger space and just subleasing out whatever additional space again. So we've con I don't know. We're, like, considering it.

We're just kind of like that's also just a whole another route. We are, like, cool. I'll have to learn all about

Yeah.

Building, construction, outfitting, like, so much more to learn about than that. So we've kind of dialed back, like, the perfect space. I mean, like, okay, this is a little bit bigger than we wanted. Can we make that work? Or this is a little bit out of our range of clientele. Will they still come? So just giving up a little bit on the stipulations. Some people do say, like, you know, I think if you build it, they'll come. Yeah.

Kinda.

Hopefully.

Yeah. That's that's tough. I mean, that's and and I I can't imagine what the stress would be like. I mean, you're probably would be in over $1, 000, 000, and then, like you're saying, hoping they do come. I'm not saying they will or won't, but that is that's a scary proposition, you know, to suddenly, you know, run off $1, 000, 000 in in debt and, you know, construction, you know, project management built to suit, whatever you guys, you know, all that stuff. I mean, yeah, that's a lot to to think about and and and kinda evaluate.

Yeah. Especially so early in tone in business because I feel like if this was more like we were at 5 years and we had a really good pulse on what we were doing, that would be different. But I'm like, I don't know. In 2 years, are we still gonna wanna be doing this? Like, what if we wanna move? Like, already feeling pretty tied down. So yeah. But it is hard because it's we're at a point where I think if we don't move, we risk, like, a little bit of decline in our business from people going other places. Like, I mean, there are students who wanna do this professionally, and they're like, you know, I've been considering moving to just get higher ceilings, to get, different, like, disciplines that we can't offer because of space. And so, you know, like, there's a there's a huge market of people who just want higher ceilings for aerial or to have trampoline or, you know, better adult tumbling equipment.

And, you know, if we don't if we don't find it, then they're gonna find it somewhere else.

Right. Is there competition for that for these things in the valley and here in Phoenix area?

You know, for the specific things we're looking at providing, I would say, no. There's not really anything in it. There might be, like, you know, a few, like, parkour gyms, ninja gyms that just allow, like, yeah, you can come in and you can rig your apparatus. But ceiling height is really the hardest thing. The biggest thing I would say we compete with is that, like, on a standard aerial rig, you can get more height. So people just buy rigs, train in their backyard. Oh. And there's some online coaching is such a big thing.

So that that could be seen as a little bit, like, taking away from our business. So but, otherwise, no. There's, like, nothing else in the valley yet. But, like, you know, you never know. Somebody could come through and be like, I bought this 30, 000 square foot facility, and now I am offering Ariel because it that is growing. It is more popular of a business to do now.

Yeah. I mean, there could be some some tech guy or some inheritance or some lottery winner that's like, oh, great. I've got $50, 000, 000 I just got, from exiting or something, and I'm just gonna go build my dream facility. And then, you know, that that you suddenly have competition.

Yeah. And then we're like, why couldn't you just donate that money to us?

That's funny. So from my perspective as a as a student, this is how IIII see you as a coach. I feel like you're very, you're very big and you're stickler in a good way on fundamentals. How do you manage we'll go with the word balance again. Having us as students learn and get good at the fundamentals, but also balancing towards maybe the end of class. Like, listen. I just wanna have fun. I wanna throw some stupid tricks.

How do you how do you work to balance that? Keeping, you know, us happy in a way, but also not neglecting the things that are gonna make those bigger tricks actually work.

Yeah. It's honestly a a tough thing with coaching, and I would say even, like especially in adults because, you know, kids are like, they come in and they're taught that they just listen to you. So you like, in gymnastics, we can do basics all day long, and then you play a game. And that's like, everyone's happy.

Mhmm.

You know, adults are just so eager to get to that goal, which is usually not like the next step, but like 10 steps above. They're like, I have this dream of doing this skill, but I've never tried this before. And you're like

I saw it on Instagram, and I think I can do

it. Yeah.

Exactly. And then, like, there's no patience in getting there. So I feel like the way we try to manage it is just like creating that routine, our training, we loved, and it helps. I came from gymnastics. Brent came from martial arts. So, like, discipline is something we were taught. So, like, we would come in. We would do, like, almost an hour and a half of just, like, fundamental work, like, the same exact routine for 3 months straight, like, 4 to 5 days a week.

And then, like, we would get to throw the skills that they were working for for, like, 30 minutes. And, you know, even even someone training, I was like, oh, how are we ever gonna get this skill if we just, like, only get this amount of time? But the reality of it was is just like in gymnastics, you are not trying to throw the hardest things to injure your body over and over and over and over again. Like, you the goal is to not put wear and tear unnecessarily on your body. So trying to just, like, build the foundation. So you you get, like, 6 quality reps and they're all good and you feel good about it. I feel like it's such a better path because you're gonna be able to do it for so much longer. So you kinda gotta just, like, let people figure that out for themselves. Like, I feel like people will fight you at first.

And then we'll just kinda, like, be like, okay. Let's just do it. Let's just throw that skill you've been wanting to do. And then, you know, they get, like, 20 reps of just repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, and then they're like, okay. I understand. I need that drill now. So, like, being a coach isn't necessarily always just telling people, I know what you need. It's kind of like seeing what they need and then guiding them on that journey and accepting that it's their practice.

So at the end of the day, I can't, I can't, like, dictate what you choose to do, but I can be a resource, and I can guide you the best I can. But every athlete that comes in, that's their choice, and they're responsible for their success. I am just a resource.

Yeah. I I understand. I think I think that that something with coming from an athletic or martial arts background, I think it it helps. IIII remember when I first started doing background, I was like, I don't know how somebody can stand on my wrists.

But so

but if you tried that, I mean, I would go home at night and just be so achingly sore. I was like, I never in my life have I I had to work out my wrists. And I I played football and and basketball. I did sports. I was in the military. Never ever worked on my wrists. I had to go home and soak in a warm Epsom salt bath. But, you know, you you learn that, like, if I don't build these tiny little muscles and the ligaments take so long and tendons to strengthen and to stretch and stuff.

You you'll never do these things, and and it's so easy to get overuse injuries in this kind of sports.

Mhmm. Absolutely. And it's hard because there is social media that makes it look like everyone in the world is doing these things. But, like, I've been constantly reminding people that especially hand to hand, like it is an advanced discipline of circus. It does require an immense amount of body awareness and athleticism and strength on both parts, fire and bass. And that is why there are a few people that do it

in the

world, even though social media makes it look like everyone can just go and do hand to hand. I'm like, it's when you look at that percentage, it is so small. And even just like I think I saw there was, like, maybe I think it was my PT because when I was injured with my knee, they would do the, like, get back to sport test. And, you know, I just felt so cool because they were like, oh my God, you're insane. And like, all these people would just be like, you're just so amazing. I don't know why you're in here.

And, you

know, they're just trying to sit in a chair and stand back up, and I'm, like, trying to get a pistol squat back. And he was like, there's only I was doing pull ups, and he's like, you know, there's only, like, a small percentage of the population that can actually do more than 3 pull ups. And I was like, no way. Like, everyone I know can do, like, 10. And they're like, that's an insane amount of pull ups, especially for females. And so it's, like, weird when you're bringing the small group of people together in this building, that becomes your norm. But when you, like, open up your vision, you're like, what we do is actually pretty incredible on every single scale. From the most beginner thing we offer, there is a small percentage of the population doing that.

Yeah. I think something like I think 80 or 90% of I I don't know if it's just males, can't even do 1 pull up, which is which is very interesting. I'm not good at pull ups, but, that's that just blows my mind.

Yeah. I'm mine too.

What is, a habit that you've recently added or maybe even more importantly removed from your life lately, or maybe your training practice or business or something?

Oh, I'm I'm big on habits and just, like, self improvement in general. I feel like, I so, like, I always have a habit tracker, and I really, I think, for a long time, like, spent so much time on reading self improvement books, trying to be a good business owner, trying to have better habits that I kinda, like, lost sight that it's okay to just be happy with where I'm at. So I feel like something I've recently been trying to add is just, like, spending more time in the present and, like, just especially, like, as a business owner, sometimes I'm in the studio, and I'm, like, 4, 000, 000 thoughts through my head, and someone's talking to me. And I'm like, I'm not grasping any of this. I am so sorry. And so it's it's very hard to be present. So I'm just trying to, like, you know, like, take a moment and just kind of be like, okay. Like, what's around me? Like, what's the environment? Like, what do I hear? What do I see? And just be in that moment to help just make life a little less stressful and to not let the years just fly by because they will.

And so it for me, it's like letting letting time slow down a bit and appreciating this moment and then celebrating the successes. So we've, like, decided to have champagne set aside for a big goal. Because, like, we we've done some big things, and then we're just like, what's next? And you don't have time to celebrate it. And so, you know, 1 of them is, like, when we get our new space, we have this really nice champagne. We're gonna stop and celebrate that we made this huge achievement when we get to it.

That's beautiful. Because like you're saying, a lot of people are like, that was great. And then 17 seconds later, like, what's the next on my list?

Oh, yeah. I'm so guilty of it every time. Like, even even as a coach, like, sometimes you're like, okay. That was good. So here's your next thing. And you're like, oh, that's gotta feel awful as a student. You're just like, I just did something so cool. And the coach is like, okay.

Finally. Now let's move on.

I love it because I'm like, wait. There's another step to this? Like, okay. I didn't know that. Mhmm. Yeah. I I think something important you're saying with, like, your habit tracker, nowadays I mean, personally, myself, I have a ring that tracks everything I do. My bed tracks every bit of sleep, my breath, everything. It's easy with the Apple Watches and the Garmins and the Whoop Straps.

And so you can wind up turning that into a game and an obsession very easily.

Oh, yeah. Easily.

I've got to stop myself from from looking at this stuff. Like, okay. I got only a 92 last night. Firstly, if I okay. Like, I gotta stop from trying to over optimize those things too.

Yeah. And I training is a big 1, especially with, you know, technology that now tells you, like, you've recovered enough to work out today. Like, our front desk, Brianna, she she said something the other day that was really like, she was like, I'm taking it easy because my back's been bothering me. And, you know, like, you should listen to your body before it's screaming at you. And I was like, oh, that's good. And, like, sometimes I think we just

So hard.

Pay more attention to actually how we're feeling versus, like, what the technology is telling us how we're feeling and just checking in and just being like, okay. Like, I'm feeling this way. Like, am I hungry? Am I tired? Am I angry? Do I am I just cooked up? Do I need to go to a walk? And, like, being able to recognize those feelings and then know what you can do to help get back on track or just, like, sit in it and recognize it for my moment is, I feel, like, so helpful to maintain, like, an a healthy life.

Yeah. I I'll get some notifications or something, and I'm like, I feel good today.

And all

of a sudden, I'm like, oh, your HRV is 13% lower than normal. I'm like, maybe I shouldn't train today. And I'm like, might feel fine. Like, what? Yeah. Those get in your head so easy. And, I mean, I will III will break myself before I stop training. I'm like, yeah. That hurts a little bit.

But once I get warmed up, it stops. And recently, I know you know, I had mass attendinitis, and I just went so far to the point where I I just couldn't even grab a glass anymore. I was like, okay. I need to stop.

Yeah. And it it's hard because we are, I don't know, like, a little bit out of touch with our body. And even I I feel like with a knee injury, like, an ACL surgery, I actually coach quite a few people who wanna tumble on an ACL repair. And, like, the biggest battle for them is the mental. Like, oh, my knee feels weird. Did I, like, mess it up, or is it just a little input? Because there is gonna be a constant pain with it. So now you're navigating like, my knee might not feel a 100% all the time, but now I need to know when, like, that pain is morning pain, or is that just, like, now it's my normal pain because I had this huge surgery. That's been, like, a wild experience to manage.

On the other hand, what an interesting, very niche skill you developed. You are now probably 1 of the only people in the world that know how to tumble within a new ACL.

Yeah. And it's hard. It's because tumbling requires a lot of explosive single leg jumping. They'll, like, you know, we'll work on that a little bit. And, like, my PT helped me a lot with that. And I'm I'm still not back after so many years, and sometimes you just don't quite equal out the legs. But, yeah, it's, like, always surprising to people to do these drills, and they're like, oh my god. My left leg or my surgical leg just doesn't even jump.

And I'm like, yeah. But it it will. You just you need to train it, and that's not something you just train even through some sports or activities. Like, that's a very specific thing.

Are you aware of, a a general time frame when those things start to come back?

So just from my experience, I they told me, like, the 9 month recovery timeline is a generous description of ACL recovery. And I think my surgeon explained it to me in a really great way of saying, like, okay. So you have this football player who plays on a professional team who gets an ACL injury, and their whole life is surrounded and dedicated to their health. So they are working out their PT twice a day instead of those 3 times a week, and they're eating healthy. And so their recovery time potentially is at 9 months. They're back on the field playing. And he was like, and that's maybe. Most most of those football players are actually a year out.

And then so then you just gotta look at it. Like, okay. My whole life isn't just dedicated to training anymore. I run a business. I'm sitting more. I'm not I don't have time to work out 3 times a day and track my meals. And so, like, my recovery time is gonna be a lot longer than that. And so I feel like a timeline is just whatever you decide it's going to be.

So, like, you want that shorter timeline, then you're you're doing agility workouts 3 times a day. You're doing it once a week. It's probably gonna be, like, a 2 to 3 year recovery just to get that back.

Wow. Yeah. I noticed from, outside looking in, in in in football, usually, the 2nd year after the ACL, the guy looks about normal.

Yeah.

And like you're saying, that's with multimillion dollar therapy and facilities and and the best of the best and probably heading off to Mexico for stem cells and whatever else you

guys have. Yeah. A 100% focus on recovery.

Right. Right. Yeah. All day, every day. So I'll link to everything we talk about in the show notes and stuff like that. I'll link to the Circus Center. If you guys are in the Phoenix area, you're traveling, you live here, I'd recommend come checking it out. I think Saturday is a very accessible day.

Check the schedule. Make sure that they're open. But 2 o'clock, starts open gym, open play, whichever way we call it nowadays, and it's donation based. And I think if you're interested in this, this is a great accessible way to come in. Like I said earlier, I'd say 99.99% of people are just amazing. They would love to help you. They'd love to jump in. You see us doing crazy things? Maybe we'll give you a try, probably not.

You gotta work on those fundamentals, like Alicia said. Is there anything else you wanna say, you wanna link to, or anything like that for the people out there?

I would just say that I think starting any kind of circus discipline, whether it's partner on grow, whether it's aerial arts, it it can be intimidating. You know, we get a lot of people that are like, oh, I've never done athletics or, I just don't know. I like, I'm not that in shape for it yet. But it's not just about being in shape and learning tricks. It's really a great alternative fitness.

Mhmm.

So, like, just starting in our intro classes is gonna build that strength, and it's going to be welcoming for anyone, any age, any skill level, any physical ability. There's a place to start at, and, it it it can be scary to try something new, but I we've had I don't even know if I can name 1 person that hasn't enjoyed their first experience.

It it is addicting. And I'll I'll I'll be a testament to that. I had a very serious, shoulder dislocation playing football. It was literally out in my shoulder. It was in my armpit. I had problems for years. III was young and stupid, and I didn't do my rehab. Strange enough, ACRO fixed that.

I have not 1 problem anymore. I have full range of mobility. I used to, doing any type of overhead lifting. Eventually, my left arm would just give out, and I was like, why is this not working? Completely gone. I I think I have some something's wrong with my left knee, and I broke my leg. That's pretty much gone for macro. So I'm not I'm not a doctor here, but maybe some of your injuries will kinda go away. Hey.

You know, this the mobility stuff, the the small tissue kinda work that you need for ACRA, the stability, I think that not nothing but help you in life.

Yeah. I agree. It's it's a well rounded practice where you're really using stability, your fine motor skills, and your major muscle groups. So, you know, as long as you don't jump in too fast too crazy, it's a good way to be physically fit in a functional way, not just an aesthetic way.

Yeah. I'm still trying to figure out how to use my legs. That's what I keep hearing from somebody.

Mhmm. It's tricky. Those legs are tricky.

They are. Okay. On the social media show, I like to do a weekly challenge, and it could be about something we talked about here or maybe something that you're into or passionate about. I'd like to give you the opportunity to issue the listeners this week's challenge.

Oh, like anything I want to

Anything you can dream of. Okay.

You know, I really like the ideal, because this is a challenge for myself about, like, being present a little bit more. I think it's so easy to get like, to not be able to sit still, to always be on technology, to just not appreciate, you know, the beauty of life. So I feel like a nice challenge is just, like, once a day, this week, just take a moment. It can be 5 minutes, but, like, take in your surroundings, go through your 5 senses, and just kinda be like, hey. I'm outside, or I'm in my office. Like, what do I hear? What do I smell? What do I see? Like, how does my body feel? And just take 5 minutes to, like, be present and check-in with yourself.

And that's a beautiful challenge. Hey. Take out your headphones too, people. We we I think we put those in a little too much.

Yes. I'm gonna pick on Brent. He has his headphones in even while he sleeps all night long, just listening to the audiobooks. And I'm like, hi. I'm here too.

That's funny. There's a I don't know if it's a Buddhist thing or something like that or whatever, but it's they say, when you wash the dishes, just wash the dishes.

Yeah. Mhmm.

That's beautiful. It's a great challenge. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Congratulations on all the success and the you know, you've done with the circuit center. From my perspective, you know, I can see the turnaround. I see the people. I see the continued growth, and I wish you, you know, more success and happiness in in the future with with all that.

Yeah. And thank you for you are on this journey from almost the start. I mean, we started teaching Acro on a park. So Acrobody was, like, our first real kind of class structure, and you were there and you've been with us the whole time. So thank you, and thank you for letting me share my story.

Alright. Thank you very much, Alicia, for coming on and sharing all that wisdom. I hope you guys enjoyed this. And if you did enjoy this episode and you found some value, share with these 2 other people. You can connect with us all week long on your favorite social media, Facebook, Instagram, what whatnot. YouTube, we can watch this episode as well, or your favorite podcast player. For past episodes and links to everything we talk about here today, you can head over to the socialchameleon.show. Until next time, keep learning, growing, and transforming into the person you wanna become. Connect On Social This podcast is available on… You can listen to all our episodes on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Overcast , Pocket Casts , Castbox , YouTube Music , Amazon Music , Audible , Substack, or your favorite podcast platform .