Why You Are Always Busy (The Productivity Trap) with Leslie Shreve

Welcome to the Social Chameleon Show, where it's our goal to help you learn, grow, and transform into the person you wanna become. Today, I'm talking with workload management and productivity expert, Leslie Shreve. For over 20 years, Leslie has been on the mission to help C level leaders, business owners, and motivated professionals take control of their workday with their unique proprietary system, Taskology, the science of getting things done. The system is simple, logical, and easy to use. Clients who learn a system claim to have a secret, a new way to manage their workday so they can increase efficiency and productivity, accelerate achievement, and make more powerful progress on the projects that matter the most. And the best part, they achieve all of this without sacrificing their personal time. This is a fascinating conversation with Lethe. She really gives us a, a a bunch of few, you know, secrets and tips and tricks and things we can implement immediately in lieu of maybe getting her book or or or these other things.

And without further ado, let's talk to Leslie. Leslie, welcome to the Social Media Show.

Thank you so much, Tyson. Great to be here.

So you are a, productivity expert, workload management. I thought an interesting place to start the conversation, maybe a foundational way I think about this is effective versus efficient. So effective doing what matters, doing the right things versus efficient, doing things, you know, quickly, doing things well. How do you think about that?

In a similar fashion, you've you've stated it very well. Efficiency is going to if you're efficient, you're saving time, energy, and effort to get something done. When you're effective, you are using your time well to put out quality work. And when you're productive, you're actually finishing something. So it's like finished product out the door, whether it's finishing a small step, a multistep task, or a project. Just getting to the completion, to the finish line is productivity.

Right. And it's it seems like maybe you you're heavily on the efficient side, but also maybe effective. How how how are you, you know, what's your process like? Which one of those do you focus on? Which one is maybe more or less important to you? How do you think about that?

All three are very, very important to the Workday. So here at Productive Day, it's about all of them, efficiency, and productivity. You kinda can't be productive without having all of those elements included because you don't wanna be moving really, really fast but doing the wrong thing, which is being ineffective. Mhmm. And you don't wanna be moving really, really fast and you start a 1,000,000 things, but you never finish them. You know? So when you're focused on your most important tasks and projects, you really want to make sure, like you said, you wanna be effective. You wanna be doing the right things on the right days. And when you put your focus to it, you really wanna use as little time, energy, and effort as possible to get from here to there, to go from start to finish.

And so we focus on all 3 because they do work in tandem, and you really you really don't wanna work with 1 and not and not the other.

It's interesting you say that. And this is probably why your work is, you're probably busy and this this is a profound topic because it seems like a lot of people are are busy, but there's no effectiveness there. There's they may be efficient. They may be to do tasks well, but there's so many tasks. They're just doing tasks to do tasks.

It could be. It could be. It depends on the the job, the position, of course, the person who whether they love what they do or they don't love what they do. Because when you think about it, when someone is really not all that jazzed about what they do for a living, it's so easy to waste time or be distracted or, you know, let time slip away. And, when someone is really passionate about what they do, whether they're a business owner, entrepreneur, c level executive, they really wanna cut to the chase. They really wanna make sure that they're using their time wisely. So while many of, you know, all the clients who come to us, they feel like time is getting away. And they say, you know, Leslie, things are slipping through the cracks.

I know I'm wasting time. I know I'm being inefficient, but I don't wanna I can't do this one more day because my work matters. I really care about what I do, and I wanna do that. And, of course, you know, everyone has their area of expertise. It's what they do best. And they really wanna get back to that instead of feeling like they're spinning their wheels. You know, as you say, feeling busy, but not necessarily productive. Right.

So I help them return to what they really wanna do because that should be the bulk of your day where you're spending your time on what you do best and not spinning your wheels and looking for things you know you have but just can't find or chasing after email all day, you know. And so when people feel that gap and they kinda roll their eyes and look at the clock and go,

yeah, there's 15 minutes I'll never get back or whatever it is that

they're doing because they really Or whatever it is that they're doing because they really do wanna finish that email and send it. Or finish that task and call it complete and feel accomplished at the end of the day. And in a lot of ways, they're not they're not able to do that, which is why they kinda throw up their hands and go, I can't do this anymore.

Right. And and just to bring me to something interesting I saw on your site that you have a a a chart, a graph, or whatever it is of the top time wasting, distractions at work. This chart, I'll share it for you guys on social media and stuff like that and whatnot, is mind blowing. I mean, number 1, 47% checking social media, reading news websites, 45%. I mean, just those 2. That's your whole day. I mean, you did both of those. It's it's true.

And the list goes on. Making drinks, talking to colleagues, getting snacks. I mean, these things, like, all like, like you're saying, if you're not passionate about your thing or you're not interested or you've maybe feel overwhelmed, these are probably things you use to cope or to to avoid things or to procrastinate or whatever. It seems like you just like, let me just check my social media. Like I say here, call a friend or a partner, you know, searching for a new job. I mean, there's so many of these things is really mind blowing.

It's true. It's true. And, you know, when when people are trying to get things done in their day and they fall back to, you know, so the old typical paper, like a a a legal pad or spiral notebook, Post it notes. There's a lot of different ways that people are trying to stay on top of what they do. And when they use paper, you know, because you brought up, you know, procrastination. Yeah. What's interesting is when you use paper to create a to do list Mhmm. And you mix up a bunch of different types of tasks, you know, some are bigger than others.

Some are more like projects. Some are multistep tasks. Some are ideas. And some are just little jots, you know, that really don't have a a complete sentence. So you might not figure it out later what that meant.

Mhmm.

But when you mix all of that up and then you look at this list of, like, 25 different things that you wanted to do today, which is unrealistic to begin with.

Right.

What happens is they end up kind of looking at that list and stepping back and kind of pulling back from those things that seem too large, too big, not sure where to start that. And and, oh, that looks like a project. And it just kinda it it overwhelms them, just like you said. And then it does cause hesitation and procrastination. And at that point, when someone feels that way, it is easy to be distracted by something else that's going on. Maybe turn back to email, turn over to social media, or go down the hall and get another cup of coffee. Right?

Right. Right. Right. Right. It it's funny that you say that. I, I think about that too when I'm in this whatever. 4:30, and I'm, like, looking at my things. Like, okay.

I got all these things done. I'm, like, what am I gonna do for the next, I don't know, whatever, hour or something. I'm, like, I don't really wanna start that right now because with me, I'll get sucked in. And the next thing I know is 6:30, and I should have been somewhere else or I should have made dinner or something. So I then I'm like, well, you know, it's been a good day. YouTube sounds fun right now.

Mhmm. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it depends. You have to gauge what you've accomplished in the day. Right? You have to gauge what are the top priorities. And, of course, we we all use that term priority. There should only be one priority at a time, and there is one per day. But your most important tasks.

If you feel like you've accomplished the most important things that you needed to do today, but you still have an interest in reading an article, listening to a podcast, or watching a YouTube video that will enrich your knowledge. Mhmm. There's nothing wrong with that. You know, that might be the perfect thing to do at lunchtime or at the end of the day when you're kinda spent, you know, when our prefrontal cortex is worn out. Yeah. And your decision making gets hard. So nothing wrong with that at all. The difference is is whether or not you got those important tasks done during the day.

Because if you didn't, then you're right. You would wanna take some of that time and try to knock something out that is smaller, you know, maybe only fits into 30 minutes, and then you can feel good about that.

I I've I've read a lot. I've heard a lot about, maybe, like, time blocking or something like that or or different kind of strategies and stuff like that or whatever. Is that something you do to say, hey. Listen. Hey. Go ahead and carve out some time in your day to go on social media for a few minutes, to go on YouTube for a few minutes, to go, check your email. How how is that something you you think about it, or do you do something different?

No. We do we do have a methodology here, a productive day, for time blocking. It isn't the typical time blocking that that many people think of when they think of time blocking because I might mention that to someone and they say, oh, I I know how to block time on my calendar. Mhmm. And, yes, we all know what that means. That means protecting time where you schedule almost like an appointment with yourself to have that time for something specific that you wanna do. Unfortunately, what too many people do is they only put 1 or 2 blocks on the calendar at a time. But we have a different methodology that that handles it for all time so that you're never without the time you need.

So my clients learn how many days a week to do it, how many times a day, how long the block should be, what to do when things go wrong, you know, what to do when priorities shift. And they have all the ins and outs, you know, from a to z, what to do about their particular time blocking, methodology that we teach. And so they have time forever. And what it is for in our system is it's specifically for working on tasks, the way that we design tasks here at Productive Day, and then also processing email. So can they use it for something else? Of course, they can. And we never name it specifically. So it isn't supposed to be task time or email time or anything, like, just office time, you know, work time, whatever. Leslie's time.

You know, it could be something really Tyson's time. It'd be something really generic because you have to be able, from moment to moment, decide exactly how you wanna do it and you wanna be able to blend things. So if you need to get some email done, you can do that. If you wanna knock out a couple tasks, you can do that. Or if you wanna work on a special project, you can do that as well. But we do not schedule time for email throughout the day. Like, oh, you have to look at it at 10 and 2 and you know, we don't do that. Okay.

That's different per person, per job. This is how we customize the system that I teach so that everybody gets into the flow that works for them, and then they know exactly what to do from there.

You know, I like to do, and maybe you can you can help me, think of a different way. I like to theme my days of the week. You know, Monday has a theme, Tuesday has a theme, and and so on and so forth. This is something you think about, or or you have a different idea?

Well, it depends on the person's, role in their business or their company. Because if you are an entrepreneur, a small business owner, you can certainly do that. And I think it's a lot easier for entrepreneurs to do that. They have a lot more control of their time. For the executives that I work with mainly, they can't do that. There's no way because they have too many corporate meetings

Sure.

And company meetings. And so we're protecting time, every day for them so that they have time in and around those meetings and lunches and other events so that they do leave themselves time during the day to get things done. So because we're not working on project management, this is why we don't do themes. So we boil it down here, to just task management so that you're always moving something forward.

Mhmm.

Whether it's a multi step task or a bigger project. We're defining what that first or next action step is, which is what gives you that steady forward movement that you can get during your day and feel good about by the time the day is over. I think when when people in corporate are trying to get these big blocks of time and these big projects done, which could take 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours. You're not gonna get that time. So this is why task management is really the vehicle for that steady progress that they're looking for because they, you know, they they might stare at that on the legal pad and go, well, I don't even know where to start with that. Right. And, oh, by the way, I don't have 2 hours to do that today. And so then they

kick the

can down the road. Right. We don't wanna do that anymore. You know? So so our our formula basic, you know, we we basically boil it down so that everybody knows how to create a task that makes it easy and actionable. And then they're moving everything forward in their day, and not a lot because there is a limit to how many tasks we plan in a day. There is that limitation of time. So we can't do the themes. We don't do anything by themes or categories.

But for an entrepreneur, that is a lot easier to do, especially if you're doing some deep thinking or some creative work.

Right. Right. I mean, I would also think maybe I mean, it depends on maybe the type of executive you are in the company, maybe your role. You would maybe want, like, no meetings on Wednesday or something like that or some type of thing like that where you

From who?

Maybe do have time where I I need to think about things. I need to look at the long term. I need to come up to 30,000 feet. I need to look down and see what's going on.

Agreed. And some do. And that's, again, the customization. If they decide they wanna do that and they can still keep up with everything else that I'm, you know, guiding them to do with their tasks and their email and everything and their team, absolutely, they can choose to do that. You bet.

Mhmm. Yeah. Because I can see how, like you're saying, you could take that and be like, well, listen. I'm gonna push all these off because, listen, I gotta do something else, and I've gotta get up higher. I gotta you could probably use that as a way to, like, push things off and and and, make an excuse or something like that and move move things around for your your benefit. That's not really your benefit.

Right. And you have to have a balance of both.

Yeah. Right. Right.

One thing doesn't slide as you're doing the other. Yeah.

Mhmm. Something through through what you're saying here and through reading on your site and stuff like that, I guess I wanna talk about how I I'm kind of in the middle of of, you know, native analog versus native digital. I like paper for for certain things. You know, the kinestheticness, the catharticness of of getting it out of your head, writing it down. It's easy. It's fast to write. Mhmm. I I love whiteboards.

I've got a whiteboard over here, double sided. You know, I I I think I write there. But I also have, the digital. I I'm I'm I'm very into digital. I I like you know, I I use Google. It's easy to talk to my Google Homes. It's easy to talk to my phone. I'm driving.

Hey. This is a note. Notice on my list. Do these things. Whereas maybe I'm failing or somebody like me failing in in something like this?

Okay. So not failing necessarily, but perhaps making your workday a little harder on yourself to be able to get a a full view and clarity of everything that's on your plate.

Mhmm.

You see, when it's spread out among the notes that you take maybe in a Google situation or you've got your whiteboard and then paper, like a big pad, little pad, spiral pad, notepad, post it notes, dennepad,

you

know, even Excel spreadsheets and Word documents people are using too to to keep track of things. Post it notes. Sometimes people use the paper and files on their desk as reminders of things to do, like this client file and that prospect file or what have you. What happens is, and then there's email, like there's always email. Everybody has all of these tasks and all these different places and tasks come from more than 10 different sources in our workday. Wow. Never has to deal with those sources like email, phone calls, texting, social media, meetings, hallway conversations, all this coming at you from all sides. And so when you pick up a tool like a legal pad, you start writing on a whiteboard, you know, so those are tools.

So now, add up all the sources and all the tools and you're juggling a lot. So what it causes you to do is look in these different places constantly throughout your day. Not that you wouldn't look already because yes, you have to pull them in like you have to see the the, task from its source. Mhmm. But in our system, we pull them away from the source. So we don't leave them sitting in email or on the voicemail or on the legal pad or in the meeting notes. We pulled them away and put them in one single digital central inventory of all your tasks. I call it mission control, but it's really our technology task list and that's the one we build in our system.

And it's it's not software. So whatever technology you might have, whether it's Microsoft Outlook or Asana, Trello, Todoist, Notion, Monday, like, there's a million of them out there. Mhmm. Whatever you have, our methodology rests on top of that so that you can centralize your tasks. Because only when you centralize them can you more efficiently and effectively compare them and then prioritize with clarity and awareness because then you know everything that's on your plate and then it becomes crystal clear. Well, this I have to do today. Mhmm. Whether it's a small action step or you wanna do a little bit more than that, but remember, we're boiling it down.

These are all tasks. But, this is something I have to do today, but that can wait until Friday or next week and next month, whatever. So my clients have anywhere from 30 to a 150 or 60 tasks on their task list, but they're not all for today or this week or this month. They go on and on. So you could do a follow-up in 3 months with a prospect or a follow-up with a client in a month, you know, but it's off your mind, it's off the legal pad, and it's in the system so that you know how to find it or where to find it when you need it. But since we're planning things by action dates, the only thing you need to worry about is the top of the list, which is today. Today's tasks are up there. That way, once you pull them away from the source, then you're not having to look at the whiteboard or the legal pad and e mail and all this stuff.

Kinda because see, that's when things start slipping through the cracks. Right. When you're trying to plan and prioritize in your head. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Absolutely. Precisely. Yeah.

Yeah. And and what I what I do and is, you know, I have, like, this, you know, central repository of of things that are, in my case, themed because I am more of an entrepreneur, than anything. And then, I look at either the end of the week. Typically, I try to do it at the end of the week. Looking forward to the next week. Okay. What got done? What didn't get done? And then, you know, I put it into a central system where I say, this is the brief project that we could try to work on a major project for the week or 2, you know, if if it goes on that far. And then I break that down to to smaller things.

Mhmm.

And and

that's kinda how I carry forward my day.

Mhmm.

It seems like if I if I'm hearing what you're saying correctly, it's like you're a tool agnostic, but you're it's more of a philosophy. Like, whatever tool you love, whatever thing you love, that's fine. Use that. But take our philosophy and put that on top of what's happening.

It's a methodology for the technology.

I like that. Very good.

It's the method and it's a methodology of thinking, decision making, and execution.

K.

And that's what those are the skills for workload management that people really need right now because they're spinning their wheels and they're too reactive in their workday, you know, kind of bouncing around from email to task to interruption, distraction, and all that. And and, yes, I I don't mind whatever tool anybody has. You know, some are better than others, of course. But, you know, what you really need is a method for it because a lot of people will get one of those new apps and think, wow, this is it. Like, I have arrived. This has got everything I need. Mhmm. And yet, they still get overwhelmed with how to use it and how to apply it to their work.

And then there's so many bells and whistles and colors and categories, and, oh my gosh, they go down all these paths and these are long, dark dead end hallways and then they find themselves working too hard on the system and not enough on their work and they get overwhelmed. Then what happens is they just stop. They're like, well, this is taking longer than I thought. This is more complicated than I thought. This I need I need to get back to my work. You know, I don't have anybody to ask questions. You know? So they really need still a method for whatever tool or app that you have so that they don't waste their time. Because really, we simplify things here.

Like, way simplify it so that it's more logical and easy to use. It does not have to be fancy.

Yeah. Yeah. And through everything I've read and what you're saying now, I I see that. I'm like, oh, there's not, this fancy system, of doing all these things. And I I know what you're saying with those tools, and I'm sure you've had the same experience and whatnot. And it's like, oh, it's this new thing. Oh, whatever. And you're like, oh, yeah.

And you spend all this time, and then, like, you're saying it doesn't work, and it feels so much. And, like, I so so I kinda keep coming back to a more simplified system, a more something something easy, something anything. You I know you say you're too agnostic. Is there something maybe the listeners out there like, listen, but give me a tool. Is there something like a couple of choices you like to maybe steer people towards? If they're if not, hey. It's okay.

Yeah. I mean, it my history really is in corporate America. So everybody there is stuck with Microsoft Outlook, and I happen to love that. So I never feel stuck. I've been using it for 30 years, and I know a lot of people really aren't comfortable with Microsoft Outlook. They don't love it. They're more, you know, creative. They love the Apple, the Mac, you know, and that's fine.

That's fine. It's just that they have a different setup. It's so much more robust though in Microsoft Outlook where they do include every component that you need in your day that represents all the processes of your day because you really need something for task management, time management, email management, and information management. When you get into something like Google, you're gonna be stuck because in the old days, you know, it didn't really have a a task list or a to do list. And even the one that is intrinsic to the system is like this tiny little postage stamp size thing where I would say, you know, go take a look at GQs, which is the Google version of of task management. Yes. Or you could connect up with something like Todoist. You know, I haven't seen a lot of of the apps.

I wish I almost wish more people would come to me and go, hey. I've got Monday or I've got Notion or I've got this or that. You know? Because I really wanna start seeing them at a greater depth. And I I did check out, Monday and I thought it was pretty cool. But, you know, there again, so many of these systems offer a gazillion

Yes.

Things. And I'm thinking, wow. We only need, like, 5 elements from that, you know, to make this work. And and, unfortunately, a lot of them do just focus on one thing. It doesn't include, you know, email management or the calendar. You know what I mean? While I say something like Todoist or Monday, it all depends on what else you have. Whereas in Microsoft, you got everything. It's pretty simple.

And once you have that connectivity, that's what gives you more of the efficiency. And once you couple that with Pascology, well, then you've got unstoppable productivity, you know. So I I really don't know all the different apps out there. There are

so many.

And I'm really looking forward actually to seeing them.

Yeah. I I've tried a bunch, and I just like you're saying, I can't get them to stick. I just there's too much complexity, especially to, being seamless between your phone and your computer. And I like to I like to talk to my devices. I like to talk to my phone. I like to talk to my Google Home. And and so a lot of things don't work, and they don't integrate. And I'll be I'll be driving or I'll be Mhmm.

Doing the dishes or something. I'll be working out, and I can just yell at my Google and then, like, hey. Do this. So if that doesn't have those things, I it's certainly gonna fall off for me.

What have you tried? What what some of the apps that you've tried?

I'm trying I'm trying to think. I I've I've Wrike, I really like, but it gets if you don't pay, it gets limited. And I was like, I don't need all these things. I don't and I've asked them, like, can I get something a la carte? I don't need all this. I'm like, no. I don't need a $100 a month subscription to keep track of my tasks. For me, personally, you know, it's just me. I outsource things.

I subconscious things. I don't need this whole thing. I don't have a giant organization. I've tried I think it's called ClickUp. That is pretty pretty I think that's pretty promising, but it's a thing. Like, I don't I don't got time to import all this stuff. And, I've tried Trello and stuff like that, and it's just like, this is this is great. This is cool.

But, you know, I think it unless you kinda start out maybe there, I think it's hard to move over. And I like I don't know. I I just keep coming back to the simplicity. I I know you I know of Google because it's just for me, it's just easy. And I have a bunch of lists, and I've been using this for, I don't know, 15 plus years. So I've I've gone through the evolution of Google and how and how how have they been. So I kinda I've kinda adapted myself to it. Maybe if I were to you know, I worked for the military and stuff that we had Outlook.

We had all these things, and I understand that robustness of it. And I believe you can get a free Outlook account, with a Microsoft account. So I think that maybe somebody, if you're interested, maybe these other tools aren't working for you. Maybe an Outlook account would be good. I might have to take a second look at that.

Well, I would caution everyone and you not to do the online version of Outlook. That's not gonna help because they have a new to do list that is how do I say this? I'm not a fan. It's the old it's the older version, which is more like the kind where you go to Best Buy and get the little card with the code on the back and you get one. Yeah. It's called Home and Business or something like that.

Sure. Sure. The Word and Sheets, Excel and Business.

Yeah. It's Windows so that you get Microsoft Word, Excel, and it's called Home and Office or Home and Business or something like that. Like, don't do

the

student thing. But that's the one that has the traditional robust, you know, been around for 25, 30 years kind of Outlook with the real task list that you can use. Because what's happened even in the corporate space right now with my clients

Mhmm.

Is that they have their, their Outlook and they look at their task list or or actually in their email, wherever they are. There's a little button at the top right corner of the screen that says, try the new Outlook and it's a toggle. And some of them have switched over and then, like, called me in a panic going, oh my god, where did my task list go? They've stripped it out. So the new to do list is terrible. Oh, no. What they've done is they've turned it into basically like a digital legal pad with no features. Like, it's hardly anything compared to the old task list where we could, like, we could do everything under the sun and not that we need to, but there was so much more strength to it and so much more structure. They've actually stripped it out and that's because they wanted to use the new AI.

They were rushing to market to get this new to do list out there. So my clients, they, like, flip that toggle back really quick and get back to where they know they've got their task list and how to do everything that I've taught them. So we're gonna hold on to that as long as it it exists. Yeah. And then to do is just pretty good. You can hook that up with a lot of different things. Can you see as many tasks on the screen at once? No. And that's one of the problems with some of these project management tools is that they're not great for personal productivity.

Personal productivity is the key here, but a lot of these things like Asana and Trello, they're project management tools. Teams and stuff like that. That's why they have all these bells and whistles because the most important thing on those is having that dashboard. Personal productivity, it needs to be so much simpler. So much simpler.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you know if if, with this Office, the Outlook thing, is it, like, a 2023 edition, 2024 edition? Is there something I could link people to to to do? If not, don't worry about it. We can I can figure it out?

Probably 2021 or something. There might be something more recent like 23. I'm actually still on 2019, I believe. But I think there's definitely a 21. There's probably a 23, but I cannot say for sure. Sorry. Yeah. No.

Not a problem. So folks, if you're interested, I will track this down and link it to you in the show notes, as best I can for that. Yeah.

Because you can do online Outlook. You're just not gonna get very much of a system.

Okay.

It's a little too basic.

Sure. Sure. And I I if I remember correctly, it's probably not that expensive, maybe, like, $40 for something like that, $50?

The home and office or the home and business?

Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

Can't remember. It might be a little more than that, though.

Okay. Yeah. But it's not too expensive. Once you buy it, I think you own it, and that's kinda it. Pretty much. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

So We have

a few people.

Mhmm. Especially, you don't I mean, so much subscription is not everything, and and and that's just tough.

Exactly. Exactly.

Some something else that we kinda were talking about and something I was reading, I think. You have these, you know, 3 unsuspecting places where, you know, time is hiding in your Workday, and I get things done. Some interesting stats I I know I I knew about and then I kinda looked up before this, kinda related to this, was the the we estimate we spend about 55 minutes a day or 14 days a year looking for things we know we have. Oh. We we spend about 2.5 days a year looking for digital files, and everybody spends about 30 minutes on email. And then the average person only works about 2 hours a day at work.

my goodness.

So now with with your 3 unsuspecting places this time is hiding, what are those, and how can we maybe claw some of this time back that seems like we're leaking away?

I love that. Let's claw it back. Yes. We got to white knuckle that time and hold on to it. Actually, you've got 2 out of the 3 already. Okay. When you're talking about looking for things, and and it happens all the time, whether you're looking for a to do list, an e document, a paper, a file, an email, you know, an attachment. You know, people are losing so much time looking for things they know they have, but just can't find.

And it's just making they're they're tearing their hair out because they're like, god, there's 10 minutes I'll never get back because I knew I had it, but I couldn't find it, you know? So information management is one major place where time and productivity are hiding in your Workday for sure. So information management is really all about the many reference systems in your Workday, and there are there are many. So if you have physical papers that you might be putting in a file drawer or file cabinets, that's one area. You might have everybody's got their, hard drive or maybe they put them in the Cloud, you know, Google Docs, OneDrive, Dropbox, etc. Wherever you're storing your electronic documents is another reference location. You also have contacts. That's another one. If you're looking for somebody's business card or you're scrambling through e mails trying to find somebody's phone number, Well, we have a system for that.

It's called contacts or your CRM. Let's use it. Right? Yes. You really want your reference systems to be ship shaped because if you have information everywhere, then every time you try to find something, you're going to spin your wheels And that's fine, you'll never get back. So information management is one key area. Another one you mentioned was email. People are spending way too much time scrolling and searching in their email inbox and in folders looking for what they need, whether to finish a task or send an email or answer somebody's question. And they're being held out because they can't put their finger on it.

You know, they can't find it very fast. So this is where time and productivity are hiding because when people are marking emails, you know, like they flag it or they put a star or, let's mark it as unread so it stays bold in the inbox, you know, or they print it and put it on their desk. I mean, people are trying all different kinds

of things

to keep up with it. But what ends up happening is that you're losing so much time rereading emails you've already seen, but couldn't do anything with. You're like, I've seen it. I know what I gotta do. I can't do it right now, but I gotta move on. So I'm gonna go to the next one that I flagged. You know. And then if you flagged like 10, 20, 30 different emails, and you're going back to them again and again and again, you can see how the time adds up and then disappears from your day because there's no system in which to put it.

This is what I meant before when I said we pull those away from the source. When I teach the taskology task list, when I'm working with clients, we're getting everything together that you need to do, have to do, want to do, even dream of doing. Getting them all in one central location, even from e mail. All those tasks and follow ups that come from e mail, they get included on the taskology task list as well, just not using the flag. Because once it's over there, once you got them all together in 1 bucket, doesn't matter where they came from. Right? Right. What matters now is what are you going to do and when are you going to do it? Those are the only two things that everybody needs to care about. That's it.

Because we've pulled it away from the source. Now everything else that comes in email, you know, it could be reference information. So you need to get that in the proper system like contacts, like the hard drive, whatever, or you could use email folders. It depends on what it is. Or otherwise, you're archiving or deleting. Really, you've got action, which you only want one location for action. You're going to have many reference systems and then archive or delete. I help my clients get down to 0 in the inbox and not just to see them pretty white space.

But so you know, you've seen everything, you've made a decision on everything, and you've moved it all to those better locations of reference or action or it's gone, archived or deleted. That's where time and productivity are hiding too. It's hiding in the inbox for sure. And then the 3rd place we haven't talked about yet and that is task management. So what happens is people are losing time writing and rewriting to do lists. Uh-huh. Whether they're on legal pads or in planners or they're doing it on the whiteboard where they're erasing and rewriting or they're working on their Excel spreadsheets or Word documents, you know, and they're doing this again and again and again. So there's one time loss.

Another is when you finish a task, you know, you feel good about that. You're like, okay, what what's next? What now? Then you're not quite sure where to go. You check the desk, and then you check email, and you might get sucked in there, and then you check your voicemail, and then before you know it, you're distracted and off on another path. My clients call that regrouping between tasks. That's regrouping. They say to me, well, I don't lose time regrouping anymore. I know I'm finished with this and I go right over to that. They just keep their pace and they know exactly what they're doing from moment to moment because they have that clarity of having it all in one location.

Again, not all in one day, but all on different days, but in one system so that they can effectively compare and contrast the many things that they have on their plate and make smart decisions about how to spend their time. So task management is one of the places where people are spinning their wheels for sure. And never mind the whole reactivity part, right? So let's say you're working on something and you've got a plan for the day and then all of a sudden, you know, Mary comes into your office or Bob calls you and says, hey, where's that thing? And you're like, oh, crap. I forgot about that. And then now you've gotta abandon what you were just working on and then go, like, run and race and catch up to do this other thing that you forgot. So there's more, you know, time lost in some of those processes where you're trying to get it all together, you know, when really you don't want those kinds of surprises. That's not gonna be good for productivity. So a lot of time is lost in the task management process.

So when that gets streamlined, then you get all that time back and that efficiency just builds and builds and you get the momentum. And before you know it, not only you're knocking things out faster and easier because these are small actionable tasks, but you're also able to fill those little 5, 10, and 15 minute time spots where you're like, oh, I've got 15 minutes before my next meeting. What can I knock out? Well, everything's already there on the task list. It's all easy and actionable. They're all small. So let's go pick 1 and knock it out. So my clients tell me, well, now I'm more proactive because I can just go cherry pick something from maybe another day or something, and it just fits right in there and I knock it out. You know? So that's where you can get time and productivity back.

Task management, email management, and information management processes.

That's beautiful. I when you're talking through that, what I was thinking was that's probably frees up a lot of brainpower too because you don't have these things sitting in the back of your mind. You're taking a shower, somebody like, oh, got that thing. I emailed I saw it 3 days ago. Crap. I haven't done anything with it. That's probably a huge productivity boost. They're just freeing up your brainpower.

Exactly. I mean, it's it's so much stress off your mind because it's in the system, and you can just move on because that relief, that peace of mind, they feel it all the time, and then they know they're not missing, losing, or forgetting anything. Yeah.

What's, what's a quick thing for people listening? They haven't quite got your system yet. They're we're gonna go do that later after this podcast is over. What's something they can quickly implement right now to help them with inbox 0 or or even just thinking about that? Because that could be overwhelming. Inbox 0 could be 3,000 emails. I mean, that could be overwhelming. But what's something what's something we can just get people going right now?

Sure. So the one thing I would say, there's a couple of steps you can take. So when people have thousands of emails in the inbox, that means it's going back aways. It's not just this year.

Oh, yeah.

So what you wanna do is you wanna get those older years just out of the inbox because they're not where the actionable stuff is. It's not the hot stuff anymore. It's kind of passe. So create a folder on the left side of the screen and let's say you have emails in there back to 2020. Just making that up. Oh my gosh. My clients, they could go back farther than that. So let's say Let's say you create a folder that says, 2020-twenty 24 emails because we're in 24 right now, but we're far enough into the year that I'd say include 2024.

Sure.

Take all of those emails out. This is another reason why I love Microsoft Outlook because you can bulk, move, and delete where it's really hard to do in Google, which makes me a little crazy. But, and if anybody out there knows how to delete more than 50 at a time or move more than 50 at a time, somebody needs to tell me that. I

think a 100 is the most you can do.

Or that. Yeah. That's what makes me crazy. But anyway, in Microsoft, you can take like a whole boatloads of them and just get them out of the inbox and into that folder. Then you're left with, and I would say because we're in October right now of 2024, take all of 2024 and put it in that folder up till the last 3 months. So what would that be? September, August, July. So I'd say go up to July 1st because we're not that too far. We're halfway through October, so maybe July 15th.

So you wanna keep the most recent 3 months in your inbox because that's where the hot stuff is right now. And for me and my clients, this is where all the lessons are. This is what we talk about. We don't talk about those other gazillion emails. No. You just need to get them out of the inbox because the inbox really is a place to bring new emails in. This should be stuff you haven't seen yet. Okay? So think about it like the mailbox at home.

You wouldn't just keep stuffing mail back into the the mailbox at home or leave it on your kitchen counter. No. You're gonna process it and move it to where it needs to go because that mailbox is really for the new email coming in. It's a decision making field. Make your decisions and then get it out. We move that first. Then when you look at those 3 months of email, this is where you're going to do the decision making. Is it action? Do I have an action step? Is it reference? Is it going to be valuable to me? Because if it isn't valuable at that point and we're in this 3 month period right now, go ahead and delete it or archive it.

Like if you see no value, well, get it the heck out of there. Going forward every day, don't just bypass those emails and just collect everything. No, get it out. I cannot tell you how many people recently have contacted me and said, Leslie, my Google is at its limit. What do I do? I'm saying.

I heard that the other day.

I can't help you right now because you're you're having a delete problem. Even I, you're not ready for the system because you have a volume problem. I'm urging everybody out there, please, please, please, please do not just save every email. Please delete because you're going to hit those limits and then you're really going to be mad at yourself and you're going to want help. But somebody like me, unless somebody can start deleting and moving in mass amounts, we can't even apply the system because you're already at your limit. Please don't hold on on everything. Let it go. So so then you're looking for action, you're looking for reference.

Get the reference into the systems that you know you want to keep it and go, yep, I know I can find it there again. And then start a central digital task list in whatever tool you wanna use. Get it all together. Like you've gotta get it all in one bucket so that you can effectively compare and contrast your tasks. So those are the 3 things you really wanna do. You wanna find the action, you wanna get the reference out of there. Obviously, get the older years out first and then start deleting because that's gonna help you get closer to 0. And again, it's not just for, oh, look, I'm at 0.

No. It's for clarity. It's for knowing that you've pulled your tasks out. And I tell my clients all the time, like, don't let that build up again because the most important thing is not necessarily 0 in the inbox even though that's the goal. The goal is because you want everything on that task list because that's the power of decision.

Right. I don't know if you would agree with this trick or tip or whatever it is. A lot of times when people have big massive inbox like that, you can create a filter real quick that says anything that's unsubscribe, just delete it. A lot of people would just purge thousands of emails just by getting rid of anything that says unsubscribe because it's probably some type of newsletter or something.

If you want, sure. I wouldn't stop anybody, but I wouldn't I wouldn't say that's part of our system. But I would say Right. Right. Feel free to do that.

Yeah. Maybe some of the people that you're saying that maybe I can't work with you right yet. Maybe if you did something like that, you just hit a filter real quick and just said, anything that says unsubscribe, delete it. You might free up your inbox enough that we can maybe start talking about working with you.

I can certainly share that with them. Good too. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't know as much about Google as many others out there, and I'm still learning because I have not used it as long as I've used Microsoft Outlook. So I learn a lot from my clients when I work with them and they're using different tools. It's great. But that whole, you know, you can't delete or move more than a 100, like, I can't do anything with that.

Like, we're all stuck.

Yeah. That's that's horrible. It is tough. It I know that. One thing you're talking about, and I'm wondering how you think about this, is if this is a part of your system or not, a lot of people have back and forth conversations in email. Is that something you tell clients and say, Listen, let's get this out of email, or do you think it's okay to stay in the email?

It depends on what it is. I know that's a terrible answer. It depends. But if it's, if it's a, a decision that needs to be made with more than one person and it may be 2 or more people, I think a lot of people wanna keep it in email so they can follow that decision tree and that decision path that, you know, this is who said what and why we decided this a while ago, whatever. If it's 2 people where it's just you 2 and it seems like that it's getting muddy and mucky and it's going back and forth like more than 3 times, then I say, pick up the phone. Just pick up the phone. If you're not getting quick answers or resolution within a couple back and forths, pick up the phone because it's too much. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Too many people are not using the phone right now, actually. And they could really cut to the chase a lot faster if they did just pick up the phone and and just really get to the bottom line.

Mhmm. Even jumping in a text or a chat, it's like, this is the same thing. Stop it.

Right. Or instant messaging. Yeah. Just all the back and forth, and then it goes on and on and on. That's too much. Yeah.

Yeah. And and so many people spend their time like, well, I I gotta wait. I'm waiting for an email back. I'm waiting for a text back. I'm waiting for a message back. You spend a lot of time in that kinda idle time or something like that, and your brain is, like, being pulled. Like, wait. I'm waiting for something back versus being able to move on.

Which is another thing that we handle in the system for sure. We call that pending tasks and things you're waiting for from other people. So that those things don't spin out of control. They actually turn into tasks. Because without exception, I mean, very few exceptions, I should say, all of those types of things almost always turn back into action for you. So that if Bob doesn't call you back or Mary doesn't email you back or something like that, you don't, you know, leave that. Like, you say, okay, great. I emailed Bob today or I left Mary a voicemail.

Okay. Now what? Well, we put that we keep that on the task list because originally, if you had a task that said call Bob to talk about a, b, and c, well, that's a task that's already on the task list. But now that you've left the voice mail, you can't delete it. It's not done. Right? So what you do is at the end of that task, you wanna put a note that says, what we do is LVM for left voice mail, you know, 10, whatever today's date is, 17, or, SEM for sent email, 10/17. So you know, okay. Well, I reached out at this time and here's how I did it. And then you say, okay.

Well, how many days am I gonna let go by, you know, before I take action again? Like, I'll give Bob 3 days or I'll give Mary until Monday, you know, and give them a chance to do it. Then you change your action date to Monday's date. Let it fall down the list. It's out of your hair. You've done your thing. You know exactly what you did and when you did it, but you don't have to think about it anymore. Just move on. Then by Monday when it comes around, you go, Oh, yeah, Mary never got back to me.

Well, then you can take action again and you know exactly what you did, how many days ago it was, and then it's off your mind.

I think that's through all the talking with them. I think that's the most powerful thing is getting those things off your mind. Letting your mind relax and say, listen, we have something that's captured this. You can relax brain. Don't worry about it. We we we know where it is. We can get back to it.

Exactly. It's a trust. It's having that reliable system Mhmm. That contains everything. And so when it's mission control and you're like, yeah, everything's there, you always come back to it. It becomes the magnet because it's containing all the gold in your day. It's everything. And and the more you just keep pulling them away from their source, get it into this one inventory, and you trust everything's there.

And then if you have to pivot, which many of us do, I mean, our day always changes. Right? And priorities always shift because that's one of the biggest questions I get. Well, Leslie, what if my day changes? Well, you should be able to pivot and turn on a dime, but without missing, losing, or forgetting anything. And that's what this kind of system will give you is that peace of mind and that trust.

Yeah. That's the scary thing people people have is that, like, if I do this, I'm gonna forget something. I'm gonna miss something. I'm gonna drop the ball.

Right. Yeah. Right. And you don't want that feeling. Oh my gosh. That's such a burden on your shoulders and on your brain. And, yeah, with life is too short. Like, let's just alleviate that so that you know it's all right there.

Yeah. It's it's easy to remember. It's all right there.

Yes. And so if people wanna continue the conversation, you have your taskology book, you have productive day.com, you have some amazing resources resources I went through, Looking for your number one productivity blind spot, you've got that that quiz. You got 7 surprising secrets that's time saving. You got your productive day smart steps.

Mhmm.

Is there anything else we wanna point people to to continue this conversation with you, maybe, get a consultation or something with you?

You know, they can always schedule a call with me. We've got the book a call button on the website. You can always have a chat with me. We've got a 45 minute workday breakthrough call. You're welcome to it's a free call. You know, you're welcome to talk with me about anything that's going on in your workday. I'm glad you checked out the resources. I saw that you were on the site doing that.

I really love that, that quiz, what's your number one productivity blind spot. And I encourage everyone to to jump into that because it's a short quiz, but it's a fun quiz. And on the other side, you find out if you're a giver, a marker, a jumper, or a detective. So that will help you find that one spot in your day that is, like, not is not working for you, and then you get your own unique results report. After that, you get another special insights report that I've written just for your particular blind spot, which helps you understand what's really going on with that blind spot and how to fix it in your day. Yes, definitely do the quiz. The Smart Steps, that's a 52 week audio series. I I I welcome everyone to listen to that.

You get one audio in your inbox every week. It's only 2 to 4 minutes. It's a short one, but they're all strategies straight from Taskology, and you'll get one every week for a whole year. And then you mentioned the special report, 7 surprising secrets to saving time. That's a nice report that kind of expands on what we talked about today with where time and productivity are hiding. And, yes, if anyone has, something they wanna talk about and maybe a chat, we can definitely book a call, and we can talk about your particular workday and how to help you have the most amazing workday, the workday you've always wanted.

Perfect. Yeah. And don't worry, folks. If you're listening, driving, or whatever, I'll link to everything in the show notes for you guys. And if you couldn't guess, I'm a jumper. I took the quiz, and it did not surprise me at all.

So task management. Mhmm.

Right. Definitely. Yeah. That's fine. So to wrap here, what I love to do on a social community show is I like to have a weekly challenge for for everybody, for our listeners out there. It could be something we talked about here today. It could be something maybe we didn't, but I'd like to give you the opportunity to issue this week's challenge to the listeners.

Okay. I challenge you to make more decisions about the information you receive, whether it's an email or it's, paper or it's notes that you're taking, maybe it's snail mail that's coming into you from out there in the world. But whatever you bring in or receive in your workday, or it's e documents, there's another one. Make decisions about what you receive. Is it valuable to you? Is it useful to you whether now or in the future? And then I challenge you to get it in the system where it is meant to be stored for reference or placed for action. So make more decisions more often. Become a decision making ninja and make those decisions and get that information moving forward. Don't leave it where it came in.

Let's get it let's get it moving.

I love that. I'm gonna work on my ninja skills.

Yes.

Leslie, thank you so much. This has been insightful. I've got some notes here. I hope everybody at least learned something at home, and, we can get these tasks going, you know, Workday moving forward.

Yeah.

Be better at being efficient and be better at being effective.

Yeah. Thank you, Tyson. This was fun. Great talking with you.

Thank you so much. Alright, folks. Thanks for joining us. I hope you guys took something away, and you're putting these things into action, getting out there, checking out these apps, checking out these things, finding that system that works for you, implementing these things, getting these these different things we talked about done. And if you know somebody that could use this information, maybe, get the book, get the different training she's got, share this with them. I would I recommend sharing with these 2 other people. And maybe this one especially is a work related share so you guys can get things at work moving slower, slower, smoother and better and accomplishing more and not feeling that burnout. If you'd like, you can connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and your favorite podcast app.

For past episodes and links to everything we talk about here today, visit the social communion.show. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and transform into the person you wanna become. Connect On Social This podcast is available on… You can listen to all our episodes on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Overcast , Pocket Casts , Castbox , YouTube Music , Amazon Music , Audible , Substack, or your favorite podcast platform .